Cue & A - Episode 4 - Stress, Anxiety, and mental health.

In episode 4, Cris & Kevin chat about the toll the industry takes on your mental and physical health and what they do to avoid long lasting results from the stress & anxiety.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome back. Episode four. Episode four, yeah, baby. Cheers. Cheers.

SPEAKER_03 0:06

Episode four. We took one week off. We're not doing it. Do it again. Episode four.

unknown 0:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 0:13

Episode four. Okay, we're gonna do it again. Why? Are we re editing all this out? Nope. Shut up. Episode four. Cheers. No, no, no. Oh, we say it at the same time. No. We'll try it again and see if you pick up on it. Episode four.

SPEAKER_01 0:29

Cheers. There you go.

SPEAKER_03 0:35

You fucker. You weren't drinking after the cheers. That's supposed to be. Okay, do it again. Oh my god. All right, here we go. All right. Episode four. Cheers. Cheers.

SPEAKER_01 0:53

That'll be the point where it cuts to the title and the music, and then we'll come back. Nice.

SPEAKER_02 0:57

Just because I hope you will cut it. That took us like seven tries to get right.

SPEAKER_01 1:04

Alright, alright. So thank you for all that are watching. And there's been quite a few downloads since we've been up available on the uh audio podcast only sites, which is nice. Oh, nice. I didn't realize. Um total of 14 downloads. Taking it slow here. Not everybody download at once. Um, but yeah, we should have an episode where we talk about how to promote our own podcast. Or have somebody on.

SPEAKER_02 1:36

We should get a guest.

SPEAKER_01 1:37

We should get a guest on how to promote our podcast. It's a lot of work. It's like a someone from like LAist.

SPEAKER_03 1:44

LA LA List? LA IST. What's LA Ist?

SPEAKER_02 1:48

That's like the big NPR thing. Oh, is it?

SPEAKER_03 1:50

Oh, yeah, yeah. LAist. Yeah, we definitely need something. I mean, a heavy hitter like that to show us.

SPEAKER_01 1:55

I mean, I don't want to derail before we even railed. Um is it's a lot. I mean, like, was I I've been thinking to like the first episode, I was doing like a little bit of snippets, maybe one or two or three, and I would post them a couple days before. I'm like, now I'm doing that. Just editing the episode and getting it all final and uploaded and tagged and all that stuff is a lot. And I'm like, oh, I gotta go back and watch it and find certain sections and edit those to a 30, 20 second, 20 to 30 second, you know, reel and then post it and then.

SPEAKER_02 2:30

Is that something I dare to ask, AI could do?

SPEAKER_01 2:34

You know what? I I was uh I looked at the AI capabilities on YouTube just a tiny bit. I it might be able to.

SPEAKER_02 2:44

Um like would you you just ask like I don't know, transcribe this? Well, it's all transcribe.

SPEAKER_01 2:52

YouTube transcribes it automatically. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 2:54

So can you just read it and find like some five-second clips that seem interesting or funny?

SPEAKER_01 2:59

Yeah, the th I think with the last like the last two we weren't very or the last one we weren't like very humorous.

SPEAKER_03 3:07

Yeah, they were really some real downers. Yeah. Very serious. We have to be totally ourselves. I'm yeah. Yeah. No, that's very sad.

SPEAKER_01 3:18

Sad man. Okay. It's like that Seinfeld episode when he's trying to be boring to get the girl to like George. Um okay, so so this episode, we're going to start talking about um the mental health and physical health.

SPEAKER_02 3:43

That you need to be maintain and be considerate of. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because this job is hard on your body and hard on your brain. Yeah. And, you know, it's not it's not physically demanding, but you're sitting forever. Sitting, you're working late hours. Yeah, extremely. Your posture is, you know, you've got like one hand on the the mouse, you know, which for me on my desk doesn't sit at the same level as the keyboard I'm playing on. So, and then do I have my chair to where I play the keyboard correctly or where I'm mousing correctly, you know?

SPEAKER_01 4:20

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:21

Yeah, my I get s I get horrific neck and shoulder pain. Yep. And then that gives me headaches because it's all connected and it's like it squeezes the muscles in the back of your head, and you get Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:32

If I'm if I'm in the like strict, like I come in and I'm like, I gotta hit the ground running, I'll put my chair in the super posture position to where my legs are slanted down a little bit, my back is straight up, and it'll be comfortable for the duration of the workday. But if I'm if I'm like I come in and the days where I'm like, oh, let me check email first. And you're doing the then I'm just like sitting like this, my neck is kinked, and um it's it's not a good sign.

SPEAKER_03 5:02

Can you maintain your your posture when you're sitting?

SPEAKER_02 5:04

Probably not, but I think having the chair in that position promotes me to I mean I feel like the a couple hours in, I'm like lean so far forward onto stuff, and then I look, I'm like, oh, I should be sitting up.

SPEAKER_01 5:17

Yeah, I yeah, it's a constant reminder for sure.

SPEAKER_02 5:21

Um I almost feel like the the perfect chair would be that like like strapped in Hannibal Lecter thing where you can't move, so you're just upright and you can compose that way.

SPEAKER_01 5:31

Well, the best chair is a chair with no back. Actually, that sounds like that's what they that's what they're ancient Chinese wisdom. That's what they say, but I would tend to want to lean forward more so I didn't fall back or totally forget the Who says that? Who says what? That the best chair has Well, the best ergonomic for your posture chair is either those ones where your butt's down and you have the place to put your knees, or a huge yoga ball.

SPEAKER_02 5:59

I think that's that's old news now. I don't because I've sat on many a yoga ball just at places that have them, and it doesn't make me sit up totally straight. I can totally hunch over. Maybe it's good just good for your lower back.

SPEAKER_01 6:15

I'm just I'm just jumping back, it's just imagining.

SPEAKER_02 6:18

That's not comfortable. I'm I've never done that, nor will I. And anyways, so the chair, super important. I've gone through so many chairs. I literally have three in my studio right now. Are they the Herman Miller's? Oh I swear by these, these are No, I've had I've had so many of these because that was the composer chair.

SPEAKER_01 6:38

Oh, I got it because it was a it's supposed to be a good one.

SPEAKER_02 6:43

I'm yeah, I'm sure they are, but um, I've I've never Oh, yeah, these have been like if you walked into any studio with a composer that was, you know, worth the salt. Oh I've seen a lot of them.

SPEAKER_01 6:56

Recording studios have them, yeah, all over the place.

SPEAKER_02 6:58

Um so that was I actually I could not wait to like I was to get one of those chairs. And when I did, I was like, now I've got the shit.

SPEAKER_03 7:08

I've got the chair.

SPEAKER_02 7:09

I'm a composer now.

SPEAKER_03 7:10

I've got the pants.

SPEAKER_02 7:11

I've got the pants. Um uh but yeah, no, the chair is so important. I got rid of all my Airons, all the Herman Millers. Um, and then there was one that I saw at um at NAM a few years ago, and the guy made these for uh recording engineers, but you know, they're doing the same thing that we are, so I sat in one at the time I was like, ooh, this is great. And then uh within a month I hated it. Really? And then I got another one that I saw all these celebrities like endorsing. Sucker. And I think that uh God, who was I think it was Stallone that was just like there's the best chair ever. That's my personal. Pretty good. I'm so I'm super good at them. And uh, but I'm like, that looks that looks good, and then my someone got one for my agent as a gift, and I was at his house, and I'm like, oh, that's the chair, that's the Schwarzenegger chair, or the whatever Sylvester's stallone chair, and I tried it, and and again, I think it was just like he said he really liked it, so I'm kind of like, yeah, this is great, right? And so I bought one and they're not cheap, and almost instantly I started hating it. So that's also sitting in my studio. Oh my gosh. I asked Coyo if he liked it anymore, too, and he said no. Um and then what I'm probably better luck at Office Depot, yeah, maybe. Uh, but what I have now is a chair made by Timothy Olton that's like the same brand as all the like furniture I have in my studio, so it matches. Oh, that's cool. Um, and it's actually pretty clear.

SPEAKER_00 8:53

Is it high back?

SPEAKER_02 8:55

No. Um, but it just it matches everything and it looks nice. The only thing is you can't adjust it, so the height is the height.

SPEAKER_01 9:03

No.

SPEAKER_02 9:04

And when I tried it in the store, I was like, this is great. I love it. The height felt good at the desk that they had, and then I brought it into my to my desk, and I'm just like wheeled up to the keyboard, like, ooh, that's a little.

SPEAKER_00 9:15

Oh, wait, your your knees were hitting the keyboard or it's so low that's a little bit more.

SPEAKER_03 9:20

Oh, the chair is low.

SPEAKER_01 9:21

Oh, you're like ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Where's middle C? So you don't use that chair? No, I do. Um it doesn't have you should build like a little platform for it.

SPEAKER_02 9:33

Uh like I thought where the where the seat connects to the to the wheels, you know, the base. Oh, yeah. I thought I could get some just metal thing.

SPEAKER_01 9:41

Oh, to put it taller.

SPEAKER_02 9:42

Some kind of uh dowel rod thing and put it in there and then use metal, don't use wood. I don't know, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:48

But you could probably buy it by a hydraulic, but then you would need something to go in the side of where it inserts to press the dude.

SPEAKER_02 9:55

That's none of none of this is gonna actually happen. Anyways, that's that's I I can't find a good chair, but oh, if anybody is watching, listening, and you say you've got the most amazing chair for composing in, like eight, ten hours.

SPEAKER_01 10:10

Yeah, leave in the comments, man. It's always good to know. I I sort of I do like my Herman Miller's. I don't get any pain at you know, discomfort. Um, except that this one, or yeah, this one has the lumbar support is broken on this one. Well, I was gonna say it looks crooked. Yeah, it's broken, and I don't know, I don't know if I can fix it.

SPEAKER_03 10:28

Like that one will throw all your discs off.

unknown 10:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:32

Just sitting in it, you'll be having traction done. Okay, as far as um that's sitting.

SPEAKER_02 10:43

So and then the other thing I do that I think a lot of like smartwatches do now, but you know, mine tells me time to stand. I think everybody's does at the same time every day.

SPEAKER_01 10:52

When that, yeah, when we're all getting up, standing up. Um we're all in a five minute.

SPEAKER_02 10:58

Like slightly, but uh, but I do try to stand up when it does that and walk around until it tells me I'm good.

SPEAKER_01 11:06

Oh, I I don't know that I should have stand until I've walked out of the studio and then I get the alert. Yeah. Oh you've achieved your stand goal. And I'm like, what? I didn't do anything, but it's just what you have to stand a certain amount every hour?

SPEAKER_02 11:21

Yeah, it's only a couple minutes. Um I actually bought a thing called a uh like a slack board. It looks like um like a snowboard with a you got one of those? Yeah, and so when I do my standing now, I balance instead. How is it?

SPEAKER_01 11:37

Does it help your balance? Yeah, yeah. So you're not gonna fall when you're 70 and break a hip? Not me. I know. I was actually looking at those. I'm like, that actually seems pretty because I ever everybody should work on their balance. I mean, regardless of what you do for a living, because when you get older, your balance is a little iffy. Uh I'm not talking from experience. Well, yeah, uh, you do, you I mean, you just notice, you know, all old people, a lot of old people over 60 and 70, not 60 is old, but 70 or 80, they tend to fall a lot. Yeah. And I think that has a lot to do with the muscles that help you keep your balance. Well, they get weak over time. So I figured if you if you practice your balance now while you're fully able to, it will help you in the long run. Just with like any any exercise.

SPEAKER_02 12:26

Yeah. So good chair.

SPEAKER_01 12:27

Good chair, uh shuffleboard. Or what is that? What was that called? Shuffleboard. What'd you call it?

SPEAKER_02 12:33

I already forgot. Um, the must not be that important to you. It's the balancing thing. I forget what I called it.

SPEAKER_00 12:40

Surfboard board band, rubber band, stand, rubber band.

SPEAKER_02 12:46

I've I I you you you made me forget with all your gibber jamber. Uh but then and then like actually getting out of the studio. What fun is that? Walking and just clearing your head. Yeah, well, just moving your body, and that's um I find that to be really important.

SPEAKER_01 13:09

I mean, everybody's obviously everybody's different. This is not a blanket statement. Uh, but we're just obviously with everything else, we're just giving us from our experience. Um now, uh as far as I mean, that's the physical, and and I'm sure we'll hit on some more stuff physically, but then there's the mental aspect of it.

SPEAKER_03 13:29

And we should end this with a plank contest.

SPEAKER_01 13:33

A plank contest, like on your elbows? I can't. I would, but I can, my shoulder. Oh. Yeah, I have a bone in it. Yeah, that's anyway. Um the mental aspect. Now I don't know how to how to start this, but being a composer, and I can't, you know, I can only speak for myself and possibly you, because we've talked so much about it, is we rely on emotion a lot when we're not.

SPEAKER_02 14:04

Well, I mean, anybody that does any kind of art is um to use a a top chef reference that that I absolutely hate, is you're putting yourself on a plate. No, you're right, you're right. Um, it's everything, it's like these are all my thoughts and emotions, and I did it in the privacy of my own studio all by myself with no one there for hours and hours and days and days and months, and now here it is for mass consumption, and everybody's and then, and for me, I'm sure you're there the same way, but uh I mean, I do read reviews as soon as something comes out, and I'm scouring for like, do they talk about the music? They talk about the music, and I just can't help it. But I could have a hundred people say, This score is so genius, it's the most beautiful thing I've ever heard, and then there's gonna be that one dipshit that goes, sucks, and you'd be laying away.

SPEAKER_01 15:00

I'll just be like, Oh no. Like, what about you'll have to start a conversation with this guy? What about it sucked?

SPEAKER_02 15:07

Yeah, why am why am I so bad? Um but it's really and like I cannot remember any like good comments I've had over the years on all the projects, but I very specifically remember one comment where someone just said derivative. Oh god, and it's never left me.

SPEAKER_01 15:28

And yeah, well, I mean, Jesus so so much is stuff is derivative of stuff you've you know, you can't help but be derivative of. But what a shitty thing to say. Of course. Well, like the only thing is always if you have nothing nice to say, don't say it at all.

SPEAKER_02 15:44

I know the internet has just given voice to everyone's voice inside voice. Yeah. It's like all the things like don't say that loud. And you wouldn't out in real life because you'll get punched in the face. But the internet you can hide behind it in your mom's basement and say derivative. Yeah. And uh, and then no one will get you except I am still looking for you.

SPEAKER_01 16:04

But I'm I'm like, um like that same sort of thing goes for like when you pour your heart and soul. I mean, hopefully you pour your heart and soul into everything, um, into a reel or or or a pitch that is uh you write on spec or for spec. I don't even know how to say it. You're right. On spec. On spec, and then you have your reel, you put it together, and it either doesn't get listened to, or it gets listened to, and you don't get a call back.

SPEAKER_02 16:36

I know, which we now know thanks to our potential sponsor, Realcrafter.

SPEAKER_01 16:41

I'm like, is this doing good, or is it just giving me more mental insecurity? Um but yeah, it it's it's like, you know, I busted my ass on this reel, or I busted my ass on this, and like I really want this project, and they didn't even take a second to listen, even because I've had it before where I was trying, I was I sent a pitch in for um this this movie, a first-time director, and obviously I'm looking at the reel and I see there's no activity, none. And then I contact the producer and I'm like, hey, I know you said the director was um, I mean, I didn't word it like this, but I you know, I said, Hey, I know the director was going over composers. Did he have a chance to listen to, even though I know he didn't? Right. And she replied to she replied and said, Yes, he listened, we're going in a different direction.

SPEAKER_02 17:36

I'm thinking that's when you screenshot Real Crafters and be like, bitch, show me here where he listened. On this zero plays, which one of these was a listen?

SPEAKER_01 17:49

So that like that type of stuff, I mean, obviously, you know, suck it up, move on. But you know, when work isn't falling at your doorstep, you know, you're passionate about everything that possibly comes across.

SPEAKER_02 18:05

Yeah. You know, can we take the slight derail? Um, but just thinking about doing these custom demos for people. And you know, that takes like, I mean, I feel like more effort goes into the pitch sometimes than after you get the gig because that's your like you're hyper focused. Uh but is there any way if you don't get the project, can you write that off on your taxes as like time spent? I don't know, but how does that somebody like you, you're gonna say my day is worth $25,000? Someone like me. And I would like that to be true. And I worked all day and I wasn't compensated in the end. Like, I'm I'm taking you'd have to talk to your accountant about that.

SPEAKER_01 18:57

I mean that that's that's a legitimate question because you know you I I I don't know if you can write off 100% of it, but write off what you would if you were getting paid for the gig, you know? Yeah, like I don't know. Anyways, I that's I mean, hell anything these days that's that you can use as a write-off is worth it.

SPEAKER_02 19:22

Um you could just make a career and and demoing and then get a handsome refund at the Or not have to pay any taxes because no taxes but a refund.

SPEAKER_01 19:32

Um that's a loophole, I think, is that doesn't exist.

SPEAKER_02 19:37

So you might not be how do you prove if it if in the history of the world if a such a loophole existed, it would be right now in our lifetime at this very moment.

SPEAKER_01 19:49

And we will take advantage of it. But yeah, so anyway, so that type of mental impact when you know, like I'll that'll depress me for a couple days, you know. I mean, there's then you're like, Well, am I do I suck? What am I doing wrong? I'm not where I want to be. I mean, I I'll be saying I'm not where I want to be in my career until I drop dead. Like, I don't think not because I won't succeed, or I I feel like I am succeeding now, but not that I won't go further and higher. It's just that when I get to that level, I'll still think I want more. You know, I want something bigger, I want something that challenges me.

SPEAKER_02 20:34

Yeah, well, I mean, you topped out, you did your best work. Oh, fuck off. Like twelve. I won't name the project, but but that for me, that's the best he'll ever do. So I can see that.

SPEAKER_01 20:51

Am I not a threat?

SPEAKER_02 20:52

I'd see there'd be some depression knowing my best work is behind me.

SPEAKER_01 20:57

Yeah, yeah. That's I'll tell you, man, that that along with having kids that are in college, you're just like, well, now it's uh it's just it's like you're sliding down a hill and you're just trying to grab onto everything to slow it down.

SPEAKER_02 21:11

I know, you're like Boba Fett slide into Starlab's pit.

SPEAKER_01 21:14

Yes, and I don't have Lando to save me.

SPEAKER_03 21:18

Uh Lando didn't save Boba Fett. No, but Lando saved Han.

SPEAKER_01 21:21

Like I would so I didn't have Lando save me. I'll save you.

SPEAKER_03 21:25

I'll be your Lando.

SPEAKER_02 21:27

Oh my god. Or your Han.

SPEAKER_01 21:28

Oh my god, hey now.

SPEAKER_02 21:32

Uh but yeah, so they're besides the rejection part and the uh the some some dummy gives you a bad review that shouldn't mean anything. Yes, uh, but it does. And then just the the constant second guessing yourself, coming up with a new idea, just the just the deadlines with I'm sorry, it's just the the vent turned away from us.

SPEAKER_01 22:00

We weren't getting cool anymore.

SPEAKER_02 22:02

Are your feet get feeling it now?

SPEAKER_01 22:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:05

Okay. Like, hey, wait until I was talking to do the beeps.

SPEAKER_01 22:10

Well, I couldn't do all I was talking. I can't do two things at once, according to my wife.

SPEAKER_02 22:15

Uh but so yeah, the all of that stuff, and then the the just beating yourself up over um what's my idea, how am I gonna make this project unique? Um, and then the the deadlines and the uh, you know, I don't I'm not great about scheduling myself. I always tell people that um, you know, games are luxurious because you usually have more time, but I'll get the the question like, well, how long do you think it would take you to write X amount of music? Oh yeah. Like it'll take me exactly as long as you give me. Oh no, as it takes as no, as you give me, I'm like, can we do this in two weeks? Yep. That would be that would it's gonna really suck for me though, but I will get you something that'll be okay in in two weeks. Um, is it a year? Like, well, that gives me plenty of time. I'm not gonna work on that full time for a year because that's way too much time to be working on it. But so you just naturally, it's like a like if you put a baby alligator in a in an aquarium or terrarium or something. Supposedly this may be fake news, but supposedly it only grows the size of its environment.

SPEAKER_01 23:28

I've heard of that a lot of reptiles, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:30

Yeah, so it's like that. Like the the terrarium is the amount of time you give me to work on it, and the music is the alligator, or my time is the alligator. So it will fill up your block of a lot of time. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 23:44

Right, yeah. Yeah, I've noticed like like if I if I'm working on a project and somebody says, Well, how long will this take you to do? Like, I it's so hard to have an answer at the beginning because you have to go through that establishing template set, you know, to work out what exactly the sound is and get everybody to agree on that. So I don't I try not to put a time on that. I try to say, well, once that's done, I can move quick. Like now that we have the palette and okay, sorry about that. Camera went out again. Um so I I think I was saying that if like if a project if the project is established and the sound palette is established already, writing, giving more of a timeline is easier because you have the elements, and then it's just about how fast you work, how efficient you are with working, you know.

SPEAKER_02 24:43

Yeah, but even with that, I mean, even at my fastest, like when I was doing some TV and I got pretty fast. If someone gives me more time, I'm just gonna take it. It's not like I'm gonna maintain that speed if I don't have to.

SPEAKER_01 24:59

No, right, of course, of course. Like, I mean, I don't know. I try I try to do two and a half minutes a day. You know, but sometimes it's way more. What symphonic adventures?

SPEAKER_02 25:18

I thought that was the thing we talked about last time.

SPEAKER_01 25:20

Percussive adventures.

SPEAKER_02 25:21

Oh, percussive. Well, there was symphonic adventures too. Yeah, anyways, that was that was from last week. Um yeah, we can't rewind. We can't go back in time. No. But uh, anyways, yeah, time so time is a big issue, but that's that's one of the stress factors. And um, and then honestly, if as a freelancer, the what's my next gig is constantly a giant monkey in my mind. The the monkey birds we in the first episode or second episode, but yeah, no, that's totally um I literally spend every day, hours of my day looking up. Trying to line something up.

SPEAKER_01 26:03

It's hard. I mean, like, luckily, not luckily, I mean, I'm in a little bit of a lull right now. Um, and I've had about four pitches in the last two weeks, and I'm just like, oh, it'd be great if I got all four. It would be great if I had one. And I'm they're dropping off like flies as the days go by.

SPEAKER_02 26:24

I'm like, please just let me get one. Well, yeah, I'm up for a couple of uh big games right now, and uh, and obviously I want them both like so bad, and I already know like how they're gonna be different, and each one's gonna be so cool in its own right. Uh, but then it's like, you know, I'm still trying to pitch for other things, and but it that is kind of like, oh no, what if they all come in at the same time?

SPEAKER_01 26:51

Well, that's why you have uh writing partners or ghost not ghostwriters, conditional writers. You don't what I just don't like to do it. I would totally like if I had two TV shows just fall on my lap, I totally would bring one or two guys on. All right, I'm available. No, not with your four games you're doing.

unknown 27:08

Damn it.

SPEAKER_01 27:10

No, seriously, I like I don't now I don't mind work. Now I don't mind. I mean, like it I never entertained the idea, but now that I've worked with other composers a lot in the last three or four years, I don't mind it at all. It's that it's a lot of fun. Um, if I could do everything myself, I would, but because time and deadlines, you know.

SPEAKER_02 27:32

Yeah, I mean I can see how it'd be fun to be working for someone like Lauren. And then you've got your own little community of writers, and there's like the camaraderie that goes with that. But as like the main composer for myself, if I mean I don't have the volume of work coming in that he does, and I still I've never been comfortable with that part of bringing people on. I just I I think we talked about this before too, but I just always once the project comes out, I regret it. I'm like, oh, I I wish I had all been mine.

SPEAKER_01 28:08

Oh, oh. Yeah, I I don't know. I guess that is I mean, don't think that's the wrong way, because I mean I think I like it too. It's an ego thing. It's like you want the whole project. Of course it is. Um, your whole pro the whole project yourself.

SPEAKER_02 28:22

I know, and nobody else, there's like no other in film or games is there another job that is like I'm the only one.

SPEAKER_01 28:29

It's usually everything is a team of guys.

SPEAKER_02 28:32

I mean, from everything, like the you know, if you go to Taco Bell, there's three people making your taco. Right. Like there's not one guy that's like one guy every freaking taco today by my stuff.

SPEAKER_01 28:44

Right. You know, no, you're right.

SPEAKER_02 28:46

I mean, it's I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 28:47

I just I when I I can't get over it. When I worked with Stu um on per aspera ad Astra, I always say the name incorrectly. Um Ad Astra is a I know, but the Chinese movie was Per Aspara Ad Astra. And that's the English title, that's a Latin title. The Chinese title is just all their Chinese writing, Mandarin writing, or is it Mandarin language and Chinese writing? I don't know. That's a question for Faye. Um oh, so anyway, working with him, I mean, splitting up the work was, I mean, there was no, it was like a lot, because we I knew I could produce good stuff, I knew Stu could produce, I mean, it was essentially Stu's gig, and he brought me on, and uh, you know, it was just a great collaborative effort, and I felt no shame in sharing the project with him. And even with the the Blade of Guardians film, other Chinese Kung Fu film, I was called on to do additional music, and the timeline was a week and a half to write like 40 minutes of music. Yuck. So I'm like, and I told Faye, I'm like, Faye, I can't do this. I'm like, this is a lot of music to do. I'm gonna bring Stu on. So I brought Stu on, boom, we knocked it out, and it was great. And he'd he writes some some really good stuff, and I'd be happy to have him on any of my other projects where I can't handle everything, or you, but you're busy with your game stuff. I was just thinking. Actually, I don't even know if we write the same way to to be able to work on the same project.

SPEAKER_02 30:30

No, if I if I dumbed it down a little bit, I think we could Mr.

SPEAKER_01 30:35

Orchestra over here. That's why it takes you three days to write a half a minute of music.

SPEAKER_00 30:40

Gonna orchestrate everything to a T.

SPEAKER_02 30:42

You know, if I've got the time. I'm kidding. Um okay, so all the stuff about why it can be stressful, mentally stressful. So what do you do about it? What do you do? What do you do about it?

SPEAKER_01 30:56

Okay. All right. Can I just say something else that makes me stress out on a project? Is you submit the material and you get revisions. I I don't care how small the revision is, getting that email or text that say, okay, here are the notes on the latest cues submitted. I just totally get angry. I'm like, I mean, I obviously nothing's gonna be or most things aren't gonna be accepted when you submit them.

SPEAKER_02 31:26

Like there's going to be things that I feel like that's more of a TV film thing to get revisited. So many notes. I definitely get it in games, but not to the extent uh like in like in TV, I would get um so many notes. Yeah, there's a lot. And then and usually it looked worse than it was.

SPEAKER_01 31:49

It always is. That's why, like that's what I was gonna say. Is like I'll get the email or I'll get a text, and I'm like, like, oh, I gotta open up these these cues again, and I gotta, and I don't even know what the notes are yet. I just start stressing out. And then I look at the notes and I'm like, okay, they're not too bad. So it calms me down a little bit, and then I get into the studio and I open up, I'm like, oh my god, these are simple fixes. And and I don't know what what it is with cue base, but when I used to be in digital performer almost eons ago, making revisions to cues and on that was, I don't know, just seemed way more destructive than Q Base. I don't know, uh I don't know, it's just a lot easier, and you know, there's no issues in making revisions with inserting measures and making sure that the you know tempos are are switching and the they're hitting uh certainly.

SPEAKER_02 32:40

Oh my god, if I ever do TV again, um I'm gonna have to have you come over and give me a Q Base tutorial because there's so many things I don't know how to do in Q Base, and that's that's one of them. And uh but yeah, so so revisions stressful. I mean, that's part of the gig. And I always tell like up and comers, uh, you know, they'll ask about it, and and you know, some composers like, oh, and you're how many revisions do you put in your contract until you say like no, now you have to pay me again? Like, like don't don't ever do that. That's yeah, yeah, that's like that's just not good. That's just not cool. And you might you might even get a couple of people that'll do that for you. I work for a guy who did that. Yeah, but then but you're not gonna get hired again. Like nobody wants that. That's very um it limited. That's too being too much of a diva. And that's the other thing. You like it's like, yes, it's your music coming out of your head, but they own it at the end of the day, right? And it's not for you, it's for them. Right. So you can't get so precious about like this music was so good as is the they're ruining it, I don't want to do that. Like, you just gotta suck it up and do it. But maybe maybe it's you never complain upwards.

SPEAKER_01 34:01

I see, I see, um, I see maybe the point because I was in a in a situation on a project, a film project, and uh the revisions were just getting insane. Like not because I was well, in his eyes, I might have been doing something wrong, but his vision kept on changing. So I can understand where that's a different story. A clause in the contract would be you have so many revisions because I've experienced a director or producer that changes his mind constantly. You know, and like personally, after that situation, I still wouldn't put that in my contract.

SPEAKER_02 34:51

Well, I wouldn't put it in there, anyways, because they're gonna fight you on it, anyways. Yeah, because I mean your job, it's not, it wasn't worth the battle because now you look um like you're hard to work with.

SPEAKER_01 35:00

Right, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 35:01

That's one thing you don't want to be. I mean, if it started out as we need this all electronic, and then it goes to it's gotta be actually fully orchestral now, and then that turns into could it be kind of bluegrassy? And like that's just them like sampling all the ice cream flavors, you know, for free. Yeah, and at some point I would do it a couple times, yeah, and then I would call my agent and he would call them and say, like, this is all like so wonderful, like, love where you've ended up on. Um, we're starting this over from as a new queue though, and uh like we are gonna charge you for this.

SPEAKER_01 35:39

That that happened on uh on a gig I was on as an additional composer, and it was tough on the composers that were on it.

SPEAKER_02 35:52

Um I won't say any more about that, but it's that's why it's hard to work for John Williams.

SPEAKER_01 35:59

What are you talking about? No, I'm just saying, like, the whole like the director changed his idea three times. Yeah. And like pretty much an entire score was written. You know. Anyway, so I mean, we wanted to talk about how we deal with the mental stress of it. Like, um you asked me what I do to handle the stress of the day, and I went off on a frickin' tangent and wasted time.

SPEAKER_02 36:28

Um that's what you do. Maybe that helps blow up some steam.

SPEAKER_01 36:33

Um I like to just go off track. If I get stressed out, I stressed out in the studio, I don't know that I do anything. I think I just and I'm not saying it's healthy, I think I just sit there and fester and push through. You know, where I should get up, leave the studio, get some vitamin daylight, you know, and and and get a clear head and come back and attack it.

SPEAKER_02 37:01

I haven't tried this. I've heard that drinking a beer in the shower is like really relaxing.

SPEAKER_01 37:08

No, I can't you can't do anything in the shower with food or drink. I hate that's disgusting. I didn't say like eat a sandwich of the No, but do you remember going to the shower with gum in your mouth? No. Oh I've I I've done that accidentally, and I'm like, why is water getting in my mouth? Like the water gets in with the gum, and it's so just imagine if you're chewing something, that's food. Can you just stick it on your head and like fit it to the show? But you're in the shower, you can stick it anywhere just because I have no hair up here. You got no hair anywhere else, you can stick it anywhere else.

SPEAKER_02 37:39

Dude, I'm on the carpet from here.

SPEAKER_01 37:41

Oh my god, I don't need that visual, and I doubt that. Um lately, what I've been doing, this is gonna sound silly, is I stop writing if I'm stressed and I karaoke. Nice. By yourself? By myself, waiting for that. I kick up carrafun and I find out songs that are in my range and I mutilate the hell out of them.

SPEAKER_02 38:08

I wonder if I wonder if people walking their dog outside can like.

SPEAKER_01 38:12

Yeah, you can here. This is so winsylvani. You can't.

SPEAKER_02 38:14

The only thing you might be able to hear is like super low frequencies. Well, I love karaoke, and that does um clear your mind for sure. But I do a few very specific things, and this is a little personal. Uh-oh. But I've been on crazy pills.

SPEAKER_01 38:34

Haven't we? Oh I've been on them, still on them.

SPEAKER_02 38:37

For uh yeah, no, I have been for so long, and I was just getting so stressed out. I was having absolute meltdown panic attacks out of nowhere, and you could just be literally doing nothing, and it usually happens when you let your guard down.

SPEAKER_01 38:54

Right, when the when the stress is over, when the stress is not actually bothering you at that time.

SPEAKER_02 38:59

Yeah, yeah. Um, and so it's getting horrific panic attacks. And so I went and I got on uh anti-anxiety drugs. Yep, and they help a lot. They do, they do.

SPEAKER_01 39:12

I'm on I I'm on them, antidepressants and I think we're on the same thing.

SPEAKER_02 39:17

And a lot of composers, and almost every composer I know is on anti-anxiety beds. But what's nice is that also everybody I know that's on them, we're on the same thing. So if I ever run out accidentally, I can call you up.

SPEAKER_01 39:31

That's your own fault. You need to stay on top of that. But I think I mean everybody, I mean, this is the whole mental health of society that for it's it's been such a uh taboo thing to admit you. Yeah, I think that was like old, like it's older, but I mean now it's more acceptable, and and people now throw it around like, oh, it's a crutch, or like, oh, I'm special because I'm on antidepressants, or you know, I'd certainly rather not be. Yeah, yeah, and it doesn't, it's not like they're happy pills. It's like it just it it for me, it decreases the anxiety I would get in stressful situations. I still get stressed out, yeah, I still get anxious, but if I didn't if I wasn't on that medication, I think that anxiety and stress would fester itself in other ways in my body. And that's what it used to do. And one thing that it used to fester into was hypochondria. Like I was huge in thinking everything that came out in the news or everything, every ailment, I had it, you know.

SPEAKER_02 40:47

Dude, I'm still um acutely aware and scared of killer bees.

SPEAKER_01 40:56

Oh my god. I thought you were going somewhere serious with that.

SPEAKER_02 40:59

I'm like, uh-oh, he's letting his guard down now. No. Um, but no, I I mean I've got that too, but it's got nothing to do whether I'm on meds or not.

SPEAKER_01 41:08

Um I noticed mine flames up, flames up, in flares up if I'm not on the med. Like I it was a direct correlation, and that's one of the flame up if you don't that's one of the things that I know was a reaction to stress and anxiety.

SPEAKER_02 41:25

Um yeah, I mean for sure. That's that's only gonna feed into everything else. And then uh and then the other thing also feels pretty personal, but um I uh I see a therapist. Oh second season, I see dead people. I wish I did. Um yeah, therapy, seeing a therapist. Yeah, and you know what? Sometimes, I mean, honestly, this is kind of therapy.

SPEAKER_01 41:52

Not with these type of topics, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:55

No, but just I mean, just hanging out, you know, with you and a and a cocktail and just shooting the shit. And like that is that is very important. I need that.

SPEAKER_01 42:01

I was just talking to my buddy back east, who uh he's like he like because we got into talking about moving. He wants to move out of Jersey, I want to move out of uh LA. Um, but I'm like, I need my hangout time, I need my you know, friends to shoot the shits.

SPEAKER_02 42:20

I know you're never gonna move out of LA.

SPEAKER_01 42:22

Just don't even think about it. You want to talk to Tracy. She's already got uh irons in the fire for where we're gonna move to. Well anyway, uh I don't think it's happening anytime soon. Um but I need I need this. This I doing it over Zoom is not gonna work. I wouldn't do it, and but out to dinner, like going to Flemings and stuff and just blowing off steam, just talking.

SPEAKER_02 42:48

You know, I need that. Really good friend, and and I know you were friends too, but um, but my friend Matt, the sculptor. Levin, yeah. Matt Levin. He moved to Atlanta years ago. Oh, I didn't know that. I used to see maybe I did. Uh but he was in LA, saw him all the time. Totally fun to hang out with Matt. And then he moved. And uh for work years now, we've been every now and then we'll text each other and be like, hey, we gotta, we gotta jump on a Zoom and like just hang. Like, yes, but you know, now he's three hours ahead. Yeah, three hours ahead, and so and I'm like, okay, well, I get done with work around this time. Is that too late? Yeah, that's too late. Can you do it then? Like, no, not really. And it's just and it never happens. And when you're yeah, the the long distance keeping up with friends like doesn't work for me.

SPEAKER_01 43:46

Yeah, no, it it doesn't, it doesn't happen. You just I mean, I my buddy Jay, one of my best friends, you know, when I lived in New Jersey, and still um we talk every day. on on on chat and stuff and um but there we've always tried to plan you know bourbon night with yeah over zoom never happens you know three hours ahead he's got two young kids yeah and it's just not as fun you know I don't no no it's not I mean like but when we visited Jersey he came over and we could have just sat there for hours on end and chatting um so yeah in person is definitely a whole other ball of wax I just it's nothing replaces it um but yeah this is huge therapy um seeing a therapist is always a plus I haven't in a while I did in the past um I just I need to see the type of therapy that changes my way of thinking you know how I process things because I don't want to go to a therapist that where I got to rehash my history of why I am the way I am yeah but that's gonna and that's gonna inform how you change your thinking no there's there's cognitive cognitive behavioral therapy which is I mean I'm not gonna go too much down this road because I don't know much about it but that all the therapy tries to alter how you see your self-worth and how you see your image like then there's regular therapy which needs the backstory of all the things all you know all the things that have wronged you or all the things that that you've done in the past it's like I don't need to go through that and I don't want to go through that. I know certain issues stem from certain things but please just I need something that fixes the way I think now not what brought me to this point. Right like what is going to help me moving forward and I hear in my primary says that's cog cognitive behavioral therapy. And he recommended a guy called the guy wasn't accepting my insurance and I'm like so now I got to find somebody else but I don't even know if I you know if if it's not covered under insurance then it's a that's a no go.

SPEAKER_02 46:09

That should be yeah um and that was uh yeah otherwise I wouldn't be there because it's way super expensive. But yeah so there's uh I kept waiting for you to say something that was even slightly funnier suggestive while you were doing this so I could go like paging Dr.

SPEAKER_01 46:26

Freud and he let me down I said it anyways sorry um uh but you but your mental health is is huge I'm like this this business is runs havoc on your mental state just because we are so attached to the material we create and when it gets rejected or gets revisions or you are kicked off a project because you didn't do it right um yeah that can take a major toll on you so I mean internalizing it gets nowhere it will make you make it worse like you need to have people to talk to even if it's a friend or yeah like a social circle super important. Yeah because you you you you know it's not only you like it happens to everybody everybody gets rejected everybody has revisions every there's not one composer out there that doesn't get their stuff shit on you know sometimes it doesn't feel like like they'll you know most people are nice about it and they're at you asking for revisions um and then some people I witnessed just get fired.

SPEAKER_02 47:35

Have you ever been kicked off a project?

SPEAKER_01 47:37

Kicked off a project no fired from a project uh well gears too but that was after they told me they hired Jablonsky so yeah but no I mean one where you've you've been writing music and then they're just like this isn't working out we're changing we're going in a different direction and you get let go and another composer gets brought in Gears of War II oh but that that feels different though not that they weren't enjoying the music it just felt that felt like political maybe I'm sure it had a touch of that and it had a touch of big film guy coming in to score the second game of a groundbreaking franchise um yeah so that was I wasn't I wasn't doing the I wasn't creating the sound they wanted um which is crazy though because you established the sound I mean I granted it can evolve you know whatever and but still like like number one leads into number two and it just feels the game evolves why wouldn't the music evolve so give me they just I mean I wrote an entire I would say 80% of the Gears of Wortch I didn't know you wrote that much yeah yeah and they only ended up using like ambient stuff that I wrote um it was it wasn't like Gears one it was based off of Gears one um but it got more epic and more orchestral in in scope um and I it was I should have saw the red flag because everything was getting accepted you know that was your red flag it should have been like wait a minute what's going on yes you're working on a project and it's their bit next biggest title and like I'm just like in the zone all of a sudden and like I but anyway I wrote so much and then I got a call from the audit director saying that they hired so and so and the entire time I was sending music in and writing stuff they were looking you know trying to solidify that contract but since they were approving it I got paid okay yeah I did get I did I wasn't gibbed I I got I don't know if you could say that anymore.

SPEAKER_02 49:52

Um because whatever it was you probably should hey can I um refresh can I get a a cube and a cube's right there you wanted to pause or we we good to have you uh serve yourself a drink no I wanted you to do it oh whoa well it's your studio I just you know I'm the guest all right so we're gonna keep it rolling or keep it rolling after um so yeah I know we've kind of harp harped on all these things but you know we came in today and we're like what should we talk about and and we've got a million ideas but then one that just kind of came up was because I I think about it all the time is you know your your physical and mental health so um so yeah there's the you know just a very quick recap and then we could maybe move on to um what do you want classic old fashioned or you want maple bacon uh what do you I'll do maple bacon maple bacon all right uh so yeah invest in a good chair why is that funny sorry because I I I didn't hear the stuff you were saying before you said invest in a good chair well when you're editing this later you can you can refresh your memory all right invest in a good chair try to uh get some exercise move yourself go to go work out see a trainer whatever to help actually with your posture because you are you don't want to be like one of these like hunched over people slowly walking across a busy street you know and and uh and we're all waiting for them and it's it's taking forever and but then I I look at those those thank you at those people and I'm looking at at their their freaking hump and I'm like oh my god that's a year of leaning over and it could so you could just totally get into that and then and then your your fascia is all built up and you can't break out of it and anyways it's it's this job is hard on your body um just from being sedentary.

SPEAKER_01 52:01

We're not logging or chopping down trees or anything like that.

SPEAKER_02 52:04

So yeah so move yourself try to have good posture get up stand slack board that's what it's called get yourself a slack board practice balancing it's it's uh it does wonders um for you actually and then uh and then mentally like have a network of friends that you can talk to and and complain about things you could that shit rolls downhill don't ever ever ever complain to somebody that's could be your boss whether you see them that way or not uh nobody wants to get complained at uh that's what your your friends or your wife or your husband or your pets are for a bitch to them uh because you all have similar stories we all have similar stories in this industry and I mean and don't be scared to seek uh help if your friends aren't can't do it for you you know it's get professional help yeah just have go to your doctor say I'm I'm feeling very anxious I'm having all these symptoms they'll prescribe something there's nothing wrong with that there's whatever helps you get through your life doing you know what you love that also stresses you out and no excuse of like there's no time to you you can find time I mean I grew you know so far the majority of my career I've had you know I've had the two kids and I still was able to work out three days a week still able to um make it to the all their baseball games and still maintain this career um I'm not saying it might be different if that wasn't the path I took but I was able to do it yeah I'm not bragging I'm not bragging but what I'm saying is like because a lot of you know colleagues were like well how do you do all that how do you how do you maintain a home life a family um going to your kids' baseball games working out and getting the projects done I'm like well there's no other choice you know you make it you make it happen um I do feel that that period of my life which was just was over about a year ago when the boys graduated high school was I do believe my my networking and and uh industry socializing took a hit which possibly made you know when that was over or during it no during during for the for the many years that I coached baseball um and then yeah but you know what though that those are the craziest places where they become networking and you're you know you meet some other kids' dad who's like hi how are you like oh I'm JJ Abrams who are you like yeah you know it's funny it's uh on the boys' baseball team in high school there is a family uh this woman's dad is a producer and he's actually doing a movie that I was trying to pitch for for the longest time so it went finally went into production and I I used my connection I tried you know hey you know is your dad would you would you mind if I contacted your dad blah blah blah so she said yeah no problem and um she didn't know the status of the film or anything that they just started shooting.

SPEAKER_01 55:38

Her dad replied to her saying we already have somebody so they had somebody because the movie has been you know trying to get made for a long time so I think they locked down a crew early on and which I didn't know. So but that goes back to saying like in those situations you meet people by chance that you know could possibly help your career. And you know I'm not saying that this would have or now now it won't help my career because I'm not working on the film but who knows what it might lead to if I stay in contact with the guy. But yeah going back to it is like there don't make excuses. I mean there's there's you can get it done.

SPEAKER_02 56:22

Well this whole thing about you know suffering for your art and you you can't do your best work you know when you're when you're happy or something and and I find that to be absolute BS. Yeah no no no yeah I like I don't like to feel bad or to be anxious or nervous or worried or or stressed or anything. I spend so much time trying to these figure out how to get rid of that stress and just do the thing that I love which is writing music. And you know you sent me like a meme or something the other day that was like about work and like you know it's the the work is the same you could either be like stressed out about it and angry or you can enjoy it the process I don't think that was me.

SPEAKER_01 57:09

I thought it was anyway it might have been said so many stuff. But it's but it's right it's the the outcome is the same it's just like how you deal with it but that's that is it's like literally life you're gonna you know hit potholes and and and shit's gonna not go your way but it's gonna happen regardless no matter what it's it's how you deal with it and how you accept it and it's like do you get angry about it?

SPEAKER_02 57:38

I mean I know I do I mean like that's my that's my go-to emotional response shit doesn't go my way is like I get angry I'm like but why I used to uh literally imagine that I was sitting on the moon and I was looking at earth and I was trying to find um first of all just land and then as it came around trying to find North America and then find California and then zoom into Los Angeles and then zoom into whatever. And how minister and then think about this problem that I'm having like oh no I'm on revision three of this thing. And then look at the and then look at it from a major distance and be like oh God who cares?

SPEAKER_03 58:31

Yeah who cares yeah no that that's a good way to do it.

SPEAKER_01 58:38

What's the highest version you've had to go to yeah I don't even know I've some like 24 reminds that's all rings a bell yeah that was on I don't even I guess it doesn't matter what it was on it was just a I remember seeing the 24.01 um dot final dot very final dot final dot very final dot I'm done I'm done but I don't even know if that was like it might have jumped for no reason like like sometimes if you're asked for a revision and it's such a like the way I do revisions is is versions like if it's ver if it's like first thing I submit is version 1.00 revisions without changing structure I just go up a tenth so a hundredth V version 1.01 and then I go up incrementally from that but if it's a bigger revision I go up a whole whole number like it goes to version two or version three. Yep and if it's a total 100% rewrite I'll probably jump to version 10 just so it differentiates from the previous version. So on a version 24 it might not have been exactly 24 revisions like there might have been some numerical jumps in there. It all depends on what the revisions were I don't remember.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:11

I recently had my most revisions on something and in real I'm I'm not trying to be funny or oh look at me and I'm so good but I and maybe it's just a game thing because I did like I said got get way more on TV but I don't get revision requests that often and like full on cues that get thrown out where you have to start from scratch almost never like I always thought I'd have a folder of stuff that I could you know put into a library or something later and I just and I just and luckily I don't have that but I was doing something uh somewhat recently within the last year and we got to revision 20 and I um you just start to lose the thread a little bit when it's so many and you the first time you do it you think like this is it obviously because that's why I'm turning it in and it's so good. And then it gets like oh no no here it's all this stuff is wrong and like okay let me do let me follow the notes and do that and then and then no that's not quite right and now this and that and but it like change like when you do something different here that kind of changes maybe something there and now that doesn't work anymore and it's like okay well let's figure this out. But then when it starts getting like super super into the weeds kind of and like okay seconds 50 through 52 right and you're like it's two seconds music okay it's uh totally worth it to go to there and change yeah you have to think that nobody's gonna notice this everybody says it no one's gonna fucking hear this well no and it's and it would it's literally buried under sound effects and dialogue yeah always um but the thing that absolutely blew my mind in a terrible way is version 20 finally like this is it recorded live um and it's for a game and this was for a a cinematic actually um and it looked so cool and I was just so stoked that like it's just fun to write against picture because I don't do it that often and uh and so I had a lot of fun even with 20 revisions I was still having fun even though some of it I was like I don't know if it's worth it but okay uh and then recording it all and then getting it mixed and it's it sounds so great and then that whole cinematic y trailer-y thing went to a music house for some polish like more sound design sound effects maybe some maybe do some adr or whatever and um but they took it upon themselves to in-house replace I would say 80% of my music what and with non-live music or things that I already had adding in like like all this percussion on top I'm like no that's not what that that needs to breathe like why are you doing that but just absolutely steamrolled my version 20 that we and I actually traveled to to go record like overseas for this and then oh man that's all that work all that money spent yeah in the live recording and the mixing and then to strip it all out and it did not make it didn't make it any better all it did is make it sound to me and maybe just because I was pissed about it but it made it just sound generic yeah and like well it could be for anything now and fucking terrible yeah that that's bad that's a bad situation that I I don't know man I'd be I'm sure you were livid but dude I just you know what I that kind of stuff I don't really I don't have room in my brain to take it too personally and to get too mad about it um because at the end it's not mine I wrote it it's a work for hire they own it they can do whatever they want I wrote it I had fun I got paid I got to travel I got to record and like you don't want to use it that's your prerogative I didn't honestly get too upset I was just disappointed.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:03

Yeah yeah disappointment is yeah well like you like like your mom would tell you like I'm not mad at you I'm disappointed I'm just disappointed I got a lot of that um but yeah I noticed that I feel that when I when I'm like up to even like the 10th revision or the 10th version um that the piece is just held together by scotch tape you know it's just like really weird how I hear it and and visualize like you just changing a section here changing a section here and it's just like patchwork and it's like it doesn't have the same continuity it had. I mean it probably does but I just see all the inner workings of what well then you're composing more from the head instead of the heart.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:45

And you're you're painting by numbers. Yeah you're trying to make things work yeah and yeah they're like oh they said I've got to use a like color twelve here I wanted to use twenty seven but I'll use twelve because they said it and yeah it is yeah held together by You know, gossamer.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:04

Uh all right, so I mean we're probably closing in on an hour and a half.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:11

Oh, geez. All right, let's let's call it.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:14

I'm gonna have to do some mm serious editing on this to try to get it close to 110.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:20

One hour and ten minutes.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:21

Um well I think you talk about 80% of the time.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:26

So just cut me out.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:28

So if you yeah, don't cut any of my stuff out.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:30

I'll just I'll just edit it so it's just you sitting here by yourself just talking. Talking to whoever is but I'm not even gonna have the side of the couch and the camera, it's just gonna be you.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:41

You could replace it and just put like a stuffed animal there.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:44

I know it's got a nice clean cut. We got a lot of open space here. That'd be funny. Put a little teddy bear here.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:51

So Paddington.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:56

All right. Um hopefully this video won't be too long for you guys. Um, but this is this is uh this is a serious question for the life of the of the podcast. Um if there's anybody who watches this that has ideas on how to get the podcast out there more. I mean, I've read a bunch of stuff online and how to do it.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:26

Um it would help if I promoted it.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:29

Yeah, just retweeting my stuff is not I've been a little embarrassed. You've been a little embarrassed.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:36

It's out there for the world.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:38

I know, I know. I just get like I get flustered thinking about seeing and hearing me.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:46

You've got, you know what? When you share stuff, there's more response than when I share stuff. Yeah, I I know. I don't know why, but it's all your groupies. Um but no, if anybody knows anybody that that can help with PR and and stuff, uh you know, we'd love to ask them questions or have them on. Um, and Craig, if you're watching this one, Chris agrees to the interview that you've been bugging him about for years. So pick a date, we'll have you out. My studio first, then his studio, and then we'll have you on our podcast. Um, but yeah, like and subscribe, share. Um, we've got to figure out a way to get this out there. I mean, I again, I mean, maybe it is out there and people just choose not to watch it. I mean, they were just Oh, it's out there, baby. It's it's out there. That's a big matzo ball. Um all right, so thanks for watching this one. If you stuck here this long, um just wrap.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:00

End of wow, that was rude.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:02

This is like the end of Lord of the Rings where the ending's like 30 minutes long. You're like, we get it. It's okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:08

It's the Italian goodbye. You know, when you're leaving a party, it's you gotta you gotta say goodbye to everybody.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:14

Oh, that's yeah. See, I I know the Irish goodbye, which is goodbye.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:18

Say see.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:18

You don't say no, you don't say anything, you just leave, and then somebody goes, Hey, did you see whoever? They're like, I don't know, what happened to it? No, they the Irish goodbye too.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:26

That's that's brilliant.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:27

That's a brilliant goodbye.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:29

All right, all right, see you on the next one.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:31

See you next week. Thanks for watching. Take care.