Cue & A - Episode 2 - Getting Started, Websites & Cris' Origins

In this episode Cris & Kevin chat about other methods of starting your career in the industry along with Cris' origin story. We also talk about pitching and cold calling potential clients.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

I think you should. You're in that seat. I think you should the person in that seat does the introduction.

SPEAKER_01 0:06

Oh, that's part out, but what is the introduction? Hi. Welcome to episode two. Okay. Hold on. Here we go. And five. Four. Hello and welcome to episode two of QA. Here's episode two. Hard to believe we've lasted this long.

SPEAKER_00 0:33

We're celebrating our second episode.

SPEAKER_01 0:36

Yeah, we've both reviewed the material, along with a lot of other people. Like two. Like our wives. We're going to try to be a little more concise. A little more streamlined.

SPEAKER_00 0:49

Not too many.

SPEAKER_01 0:52

Yeah. If if somebody actually has a question, let's try to answer it. Yeah, that would be good. I would like to before we get too started. Yes, Chris. Let's talk about the elephant in the room. You didn't say nice haircut. I haven't had a haircut in a year.

SPEAKER_00 1:17

Okay, to be fair. The last I say maybe 700 times we've hung out, you've had a hat on. For all I know, you're gonna be bald. It looks good. It also looks like you're in a ponytail if you had long hair.

unknown 1:35

It doesn't.

SPEAKER_00 1:36

That looks good. Anyways, alright. So that's not big enough. We're moving on.

SPEAKER_01 1:42

So should we start with a topic of our own, or do you want to try to go back to that? The networking one?

SPEAKER_00 1:49

Or the um yeah, let's just let's let's talk about the networking a little bit more, not not go off or we could yeah, see the thing. I mean, do people want to continue that topic? They want are they gonna sit through okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:08

Alright, well, I mean, networking is important. I was just at the game developers conference. Yes, we could talk about that. That's great. Um so that is one of the for games, one of the more of the important um uh conferences out there, I think, where you can meet a lot of people. Yeah, it's it's not like for a long, long time. And you know, when you go, if you're just starting out your first one, two, three GDCs, even I wouldn't I wouldn't like put too much of your breath that that's gonna lead to work. Because what you're doing is just you're you're you're sowing relationships. Yeah, so I'm just gonna be able to do that. Yeah, you gotta you gotta plant the seeds before uh you get the fruit.

SPEAKER_00 3:01

Hold on, hopefully getting some better gains. So okay, cool. Sorry, sorry about that.

SPEAKER_01 3:06

Um so so yeah, so people that I met way back when at GDC, they like some of them have just become acquaintances, some of them are um actual friends. I met you at GDC. Yeah, it's when we met first face to face, yeah. Uh and then others have become uh like really valuable clients to me. And but that didn't happen overnight. That's just like I feel like there's so many like up and comers that that want to like be like have major careers right out the gate, and and it that that occasionally happens, uh but it's yeah, it's very rare, and uh you just you know, patience and perseverance.

SPEAKER_00 3:58

Yeah, I remember uh I I've only been a handful of times, I think maybe four or five times, and I I remember making you know, you you establish this these relationships, and the key is to not bother them for work, but just talk to them about the industry. Yeah, we obviously you have to preface it that you are what you know to describe what you do, but I was gonna say the opposite.

SPEAKER_01 4:29

Oh, don't say, hey, I'm a composer, or just no, especially I think there's so many um composers that go to to especially GDC now, yeah, that's almost like social kryptonite. Yeah, I guess that's a good point. Um, because they a lot of people, you know, they just they'll they'll hound you, and nobody wants that. And when you've got a hundred composers that have done that to you like every day, it's just if someone comes up and says, Oh, I'm a composer, I feel like instantly their force field is gonna go up a little bit. I think it's way better to ask like about them. What do they do? Who do they work for? What is you know, what's your favorite thing? Make it about them, which is idea for all of the.

SPEAKER_00 5:10

Then you can say, like, oh, I'm a composer. Right. And they're like, Oh, okay, this conversation's over. No, I think at that point you've used. Oh, this guy's friendly.

SPEAKER_01 5:17

Yeah. This kind of made me think of the uh the first time I got an assistant. And because at the like, if you've never had one before, you don't really know how to use them. Right. Same thing with like orchestrators, or like, like, how do I use an orchestrator? I don't know. That's could be a whole other topic. But I didn't want one. I never even thought about having one. I was perfectly fine doing my work by myself. And uh, but this I met this this one guy at a some other conference thing that I was speaking at it, and he came up to me afterwards. And and um I'll I'll just say his name because he's so awesome. His name is Sean, and he was my first one.

SPEAKER_00 6:03

Sax player, right?

SPEAKER_01 6:04

Uh no. No.

SPEAKER_00 6:06

Oh, Sean, I remember Sean now. The other one was a sax player.

SPEAKER_01 6:10

Uh so Sean came up to me after this thing and just introduced himself, and he seemed like a nice kid. And he's like, hey, if you know, if you ever need help, I would I would love to assist you. And and I didn't, I didn't need help, I didn't want help. And I was like, Oh, okay, thanks. And I said, you know, I don't need one now, but if you email me every so often, check in, you know, and right, and I'm like, not too much. I said, once a month is too much. Yeah. Um, I'm like, maybe, maybe every six months, maybe every four months, something like that. But just uh, it'd be good to hear from you. Uh, and then maybe things have changed. And so he he did that. And like he emailed me like twice over the next year, and both times, I was like, Oh, you know, thanks for for reaching out. I'm I'm good right now. I but you know, thanks for staying in my mind. And then the third time I think he emailed me, he sent me this list of how he was gonna make my life better. Um, and he was like, I can do this for you, I can do this for you, I can do this for you. I can come over and print stems while you know, while you have a nice dinner with your wife or while you're sleeping or something, right? Right. And just all these things, and I was like, Ooh, that sounds real nice. Yeah. And so I hired him, and he became invaluable to me, but he planted those seeds. That's very smart on his part. Did it respect respectfully, and he was genuine, and it and you could tell he wasn't like wasn't like uh he wasn't too aggressive, you know, and and I just I get that too aggressive all the time. Yeah, and it's it's off-putting. So that's how I type was time that in.

SPEAKER_00 7:54

No, that that I I think he did it in the best best way.

SPEAKER_01 7:58

Just turn my phone off so it doesn't do that.

SPEAKER_00 8:00

Oh, mine's gonna end up doing that it probably at some point. Um okay, like yeah, have have a way of going about it to where you're not annoying to the person you want to work with. Check in and be persistent with checking in, not annoying, persistent. And then look at that. And he worked for you, and a lot of assistants, you know, go on to that's how they start. They'll get work, more and more work. And so that's that's the way to do it. Um, other than networking. And I I I would think, I mean, other than networking, networking is is difficult, not because we're anti an anti-social group of creatives. No, but I'm certainly introverted. No, I know, but like myself, but I think if you're not working or if you're not writing, you know, pursue, put your efforts into trying to get noticed by another working composer, whether it be an A-list composer or anybody else that's doing it for a living.

SPEAKER_01 9:07

Why to become see if you can help them? Yeah. Oh. Help them. Do you think that's how they they want it now? Because it uh I mean, you know, like assistants kind of have their their own like group of people that assist composers and they all talk. Right. And they um, but I almost feel like if you got in with that group, maybe they would recommend you if things get crazy.

SPEAKER_00 9:36

Like if I I know uh that if you get in with one group of uh like how do I put this? Like, for example, like like uh Lauren's team, bunch of composers, bunch of uh assistants that work, you know, in and out that are not always working for him, but there's that core group of guys that keep in contact, and they also work for other guys and by recommendation too. So if you get in with another composer, you're inevitably gonna be part of a sort of a an assistant network. Yeah, you know, and then you know, when the the guy, the person you're working for currently isn't busy, you know, another composer might be. And you, you know, if you've worked with this one guy and have the credits of working with that one guy, you know, have a better chance of assisting an another A-less guy. Um that's if you want to take that route. I mean, I think it's a very smart route to take if you're if you want to compose, um work as an assistant. I don't mean like an assistant. I mean, uh actually take it how you want it. I mean, you can be an assistant that preps sessions, prints stems, anything like that, and then also does it, you know, some additional music when needed, or just if you're hired for just additional music. I mean, I think doing it that way is is one avenue to eventually pop eventually, hopefully, get you some more of a recognition from that composer you're working for, so he has faith in you to hand you stuff that he can't take on at that moment. Right.

SPEAKER_01 11:30

You know, but to get there though and not just be like the guy that goes out and gets lunch, um you've got to make yourself invaluable to that. Of course. And I see I see both of that all the time, but I can tell the ones from other other composers I know that that have had people, and you could tell the ones that are I'm like, this guy's not gonna be around too long.

SPEAKER_00 11:53

Yeah, you definitely can tell, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:55

Yeah. So uh, and that's what was so great about Sean is I I could not imagine my day-to-day without him. Like he helped me so much, and he became invaluable. Um that was a sad day.

SPEAKER_00 12:15

Yeah, I I didn't have an assistant for a long time before I had my first, mainly because I didn't think I had the means or the enough projects happening at one time to be able to financially support an assistant.

SPEAKER_01 12:34

Yeah, because it's or pay an assistant of anything. There's a financial burden, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:41

Um, and also I was oh I'm so OCD with everything I do that I would be more anxious and stressed out if I left it into the hand left it in the hands of somebody else rather than me stressing out trying to get it all done by myself. I'd rather that than hands off, you take care of it. It took me a while to get over that. When I had when I first got my assistant, I was it was it it, I mean, you sort of know, like I like my first assistant, it was just basically feeling comfortable, not even musically or what just knowing that the trust was there. And that that only comes with you know having conversations with them and the first few jobs you give them. Um, but once the comfort was there, I I I felt no issue, you know, relinquishing some work and stuff. But yeah, I'm I I just I like to handle a lot of stuff by myself.

SPEAKER_01 13:45

But uh yeah, no, me too. I mean, I haven't had an assistant in years, and sometimes I'm so busy, and then when I have to like print stems or something at the end, and I and I just know that it's gonna take me possibly days to do this.

SPEAKER_00 14:03

Um I think we need to talk about how you print stems to be honest. If you could do an episode where you show me I mean, I'm not saying how you do it is wrong. I mean, it depends on how you how you route things.

SPEAKER_01 14:16

Um Yeah, no, my my templates it's it's a mess right now. So uh I'm hoping it will soon.

SPEAKER_00 14:23

How often do you create a new template?

SPEAKER_01 14:26

The one that I I don't even work.

SPEAKER_00 14:29

Well, do you even have a template?

SPEAKER_01 14:31

I uh yes. Oh, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 14:32

Some some people just uh well. But recently I haven't been.

SPEAKER_01 14:36

Okay. Okay. Should we make a clear like delineation of we're we're changing topics now? Because otherwise it seems like oh, they strayed again.

SPEAKER_00 14:47

No. I think the whole straying thing is is part of the natural conversation. Like we're not you know, I I don't want this to be a chapterized uh bullet point type of conversation, then it doesn't seem natural. If we go off tangent, then we, you know, you know, I'm just I think we're still finding my sea legs here. We both are. I mean it's only the second episode. And I I mean, I think if we, you know, I think our tangents are interesting enough. And I think we've we answered that one question multiple times. Well, yeah, what do you do when you're not writing? I mean that question. No, I thought I see here.

SPEAKER_01 15:31

It's not I thought it was networking and yeah, but when you're not yeah, that's what the question posed to me. Oh, yeah, that's right. That's what we'd often do. What do I do? You should always be writing. Right, right. Um even as I'm always writing, uh I still uh I still I feel like half my day is still networking and looking for the next gig.

SPEAKER_00 15:59

See, I I am bad at that. My when I'm writing, I just want to write on, I just want to do the project, and there's no time. Like it's it's a totally different headspace to get into that what's the next project when I'm in the headspace of either one or two other projects.

SPEAKER_01 16:15

Yeah, I mean if I'm in the zone, I'm not gonna like stop and do that.

SPEAKER_00 16:18

I understand that, yeah. But like I gotta be like the way I do it is like I have production weekly opened up on one monitor, I have IMDB opened up on another monitor, I have uh what is the what is it called? Uh it used to be called below the line. Um, just all the trades opened up and I'm taking notes and I'm I have my spreadsheet. I saw you had uh Suno and Chat GPT open. What? What the hell is Suno?

SPEAKER_01 16:46

Just it's the AI music writing software. Oh, is it? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:52

That's how far away from AI I am. Um but yeah, it's it's like that's a whole thing for me when when I when I'm looking for work and looking for possible projects that I can, you know, that's within my my wheelhouse.

SPEAKER_01 17:12

It's the monkey bars, though. You gotta do it like monkey, you're like you're on the monkey bars, where you reach for the next one while you still got your hand on this one. Yeah, see you don't reach for them both, you don't take your hand off and then reach. That's what it sounds like you're doing. I have never been able to do monkey bars, dude. That's because you're doing it two hands at a time. I know. That's not how you do it.

SPEAKER_00 17:33

It just comes from me.

SPEAKER_01 17:34

You got your job. This is your bar. And then as you're working on this job, you swing to find the next one, and then you finish that job. And hey, you got that one. All right, hand off that one. You're doing this one, you swing to the next one. You don't you can't just wait until you're done, and then then you fall off the box. I really don't wait.

SPEAKER_00 17:52

It's not like I don't put any thought into it. It's there's like I said, it's it's totally two different trains of thought. And scrolling through everything and and looking for it's exhausting in and of itself. Yeah. And then it's frustrating. Very frustrating when your agent tells you that, oh, that project's been done and the composer's been signed on forever. No, and it's I know.

SPEAKER_01 18:16

I'll I'll tell you a gig that I really want, and it's probably too late. Don't say it. Why not? I don't know, because everybody out there's gonna go for it. It's all it's been announced. It's not it's not something secret. Go ahead. Um, what is it? It's called code word. Uh no, it's the it's the Hellraiser game. Oh, I didn't know there was a Hellraiser game. Yeah. Um, there's not. Well, you said it's already done. Look for it. That would be stupid. I would totally be like, dude, that that's your gig, Chris. But I so I even know the guys at the developer. Right. No-ish, because I've I had pitched on other stuff for. And so I reached out, and this is part of my monkey bar thing. I was like, guys, I have, first of all, I'm a friend of Clive Barker's. I have worked I'm just kidding. I know you are. I've worked with with Clive on numerous projects. Um this is so my jam. And by the way, Chris Young was the one that kind of inspired me to get into orchestral music. Oh, wow. Not personally, but his music to Hellraiser. Yeah. Um, that was one of the my first kind of like, oh my god, this is this is amazing. And I even and I've told him this too, so I'm not ashamed to say it. I blatantly ripped him off while I was at UCLA, and we had a like an orchestration class where you had to uh produce like a two-minute or one-minute or something piece at the end and orchestrate it yourself and then bring it in. And um so inspired by by Hellraiser. I told him that, and he thought it was funny. Um, so, anyways, I'm mentioning all this to these guys doing the Hellraiser game, and and I even took a picture because as you know, in my studio I have Clive's like original portrait of Hellraiser that he painted. Oh, right, yes, yeah, yeah. And it to my knowledge, it's the only oil painting he's he's ever done of Pinhead. Oh. And I happen to have it. Um and and so I took a picture of that and I sent it to them. I'm like, guys, like, holy shit, is there any other composer out there that right now that's besides maybe Chris Young, that's like more perfect for this or wants it so bad? And um, I'm like, I'll demo, do anything. Never heard a peep. Oh, I know. And you're just and I just saw something, I was reminded again today because I saw an ad and it was talking about the Hellraiser game, and it's like, oh man, is it now it's probably too late, but do I do I go after it again and say like how often just go what?

SPEAKER_00 20:59

How often did you we're talking about pursuing and being persistent? How often were you after you send that that email?

SPEAKER_01 21:07

I didn't follow it up because I could um you know I could see that it it had been read. How do you see that? This was on LinkedIn. Oh, oh, oh I saw it had been read, and then and then no answers. So I was just like, well, they have somebody or they're not interested, or whatever other million reasons for not maybe they just forgot. I mean, I should have followed up maybe.

SPEAKER_00 21:30

There's got yeah, there's definitely other avenues you probably but I mean I think LinkedIn is the worst of them all. But unfortunately, that's uh sometimes your only way to get in contact with anybody at a developer or yeah production.

SPEAKER_01 21:43

I don't know. It feels more sometimes more professional to go LinkedIn. It does, but I like I get yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 21:52

I mean, I don't keep up with LinkedIn. I mean, because I see I see guys that use it like a social media. Platform and they post things and they comment on things, and I'm like I I never saw LinkedIn as that, but I guess I guess it is.

SPEAKER_01 22:08

I only started using it like in the last year. Wow. I stopped using it in the last three years and I just started back up again. Oh yeah, I never I never really use it for anything, and I was gonna try to change my profile a bit and update it, but um like oh it was just it felt like so much work. I'm like, okay, this is the kind of yeah, yeah. This is what I'm doing assistant for.

SPEAKER_00 22:33

Yeah, I I don't think I I I don't I don't update it's I'm terrible with updating my own stuff. Like I just recently updated my site to make sure that the posters I had on my site actually link to either Spotify playlists or I found a new uh site that does what Song Whip used to do.

SPEAKER_01 22:52

That was so cool.

SPEAKER_00 22:54

So I found I found one that I I forget what it's called, but I'll let you know about it. It does the same thing and it's free.

SPEAKER_01 23:00

That was really nice while it lasted. Yeah. Um so okay, so that's that's actually good, another potentially good topic is websites.

SPEAKER_00 23:08

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 23:09

So are they worth it? Yeah, like I is it just kind of more of a an ego thing, like that, like, oh, I've got a website. I mean, it's not that crazy to have a website anymore, but uh, but do you does anybody actually go there? Uh I don't I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 23:28

I have I have I have some I wonder I would I might I don't know what to call them fans, but they email me through my website.

SPEAKER_01 23:36

Yeah, I used to get I actually did get a couple of job offers actually through my really website email, but then I just discovered it doesn't work anymore. Oh, you might want to fix that. Yeah, I'm so uh uh anyways, Sean, my old awesome assistant, he um he builds websites now amongst many other things. Right. But he built my current website.

SPEAKER_00 24:00

Yes, I remember. Yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 24:02

I've been thinking about updating it. I mean, I still like mine, but I don't know. Maybe I'm just like, would updating my website do anything do anything? Like, I don't I don't know what else I would do.

SPEAKER_00 24:15

Well, what's modern anymore? I I don't know. A bunch of AI shit flying around your website annoying people? Uh no, that sounds like way old website. We're back to flash. Um yeah, I mean, I I think the the simple the simplest the website can be, the better. The thing is, like, you don't want like I remember websites way back when you wanted it to be an experience. No one's got time for that shit. Yeah, that's that's it's like you just go there, who is this guy, have a short bio, have a link to music, and a contact form. Um so I'm thinking And if you post, if you have credits on your site, you just interrupted me pretty hard. That's right, that's what this is all about, man. If you have credits on your site, this is my little pet peeve of mine. If you have credits on your site and you did, you weren't the main composer on the gig, it would be helpful to put additional music or whatever role you had on the film, or if you only scored the trailer. Yeah. Don't put the movie posters on there to have newcomers to your side think, oh, this guy, you know.

SPEAKER_01 25:39

Oh my god. The ones that make me crazy, don't do this are if you've got a lot of music in production libraries.

SPEAKER_00 25:48

Oh, these are yeah, these are my clients or whatever, and they listen.

SPEAKER_01 25:51

Well, no, but not that, but I've I've seen websites where you'll you'll see the posters and you'll you know, you'll see movies. I'm like, I am pretty sure Hans Zimmer scored that one. Yeah. Exactly. Okay, that was John Debbie. But yeah, but they had right, they had like a a brief flicker of a or like TV shows too, like like, oh, they you know, uh like I scored top show Oprah's show, or yeah, top shop or something, yeah, whatever. But um because they had AQ in a show. And you know what? But when you take that as a credit, it just it looks bad.

SPEAKER_00 26:29

But to who? But who does it look bad to? See, that's my my thing.

SPEAKER_01 26:33

Is it just me being No, I think it's I think it's cheesy as hell, and I think you should say something like um, because it just looks it looks a little desperate. Like, oh, they're gonna see that F1 poster with Brad Pitt on it, and like, and that's on my website. They're like, no, dude, you didn't score that. Like, like, oh, no, I did a like I did a whoosh that ended up in the trailer for it.

SPEAKER_00 26:55

Musical sound design and trailer, like put the actual credit there.

SPEAKER_01 26:58

Yeah, if you if it was under a a heading of like production music or something, right, and then you had stuff like I had cues or I've had cues or whatever in the following shows, and then then it's like oh okay, that's but that's the thing, it's like that's still impressive.

SPEAKER_00 27:14

There's many, there's thousands of people that would want that credit. Like, I did musical sound design for the trailer, or I did musical sound design for second of uh ad campaign. Put that be be happy with that credit.

SPEAKER_01 27:29

So I haven't done a ton of production music, but let me tell you one of my my biggest uh hits. Oh boy, here we go. Shark Week. Shark Week. I get a lot of stuff. Do they do Shark Week anymore? I'm sure. Oh, I don't know though. Oh, baby. Um yeah, my stuff shows up in Shark Week.

SPEAKER_00 27:47

You know what? I have one in uh the show called Oddities. Oh, me too. I get a lot from that. It's like, and I listen to it, I'm like, this sounds exactly like the theme from Oddities. Because I it was an old, old piece I did. I forget. No. But every time every time I hear that piece of music, I'm like every time. Like if I ever go back to it, I'm like now. I remember it in the show. But I didn't remember. Well, I'm still getting credit from it. I mean, you said I get a lot, like what's that? No, I get it. 17 cents. No, I get it. I well, I mean, a lot is different to everybody. Um but I see it, I see it in the list. All right. How much money did you make last year, Kevin? $3.58. Nothing is off limits. Oh, yes. My income is even to me. Go straight to the government. Um so, okay, so uh websites.

SPEAKER_01 29:00

Oh, right. I know.

SPEAKER_00 29:01

Yeah, I I I I think you know, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 29:05

Do I think I would love to hear from people like do you ever go to a composer's website for any of these?

SPEAKER_00 29:13

I think maybe even like people who are interested in your music who aren't in the business might. Because it's really the only central spot. You can't, you're not gonna get that information off of a social media post. You know, you might get a link to uh like an Apple music playlist or an Apple.

SPEAKER_01 29:33

You know what I'm gonna do for I think I will have Sean update my website, just kind of revamp the whole thing, and then if I could somehow, oh, maybe this could be one of our sponsors. Somehow, if if uh Realcrafter Oh, hey now, Sam. I would love to, I mean, I used the heck out of them. Oh me too. But if I but I never I always wonder, and that would solve the question, like does anybody actually go to my website and listen to the music? And if I don't know if you can do this another way, but if if I could just use Real Crafter embedded for each playlist, well, yeah, like for each project, you know, because I do now like like I'll have like the poster and you just click on it, and then I think right now I'm limited with my website to like five tracks total that I can put into the little right the little doohickey, yeah. Um and they're mp3s now, like 128s or something in MP3. So it's it's not great quality. Uh so I would like to um yeah, I I think I gotta up that to waves.

SPEAKER_00 30:43

But but anyways, but if we could embed Realcrafter in a way that was cool and didn't say Real Crafter You can if you have the the up the top subscription, you can get rid of the Realcrafter logo. Um I never do because Sam's awesome and I like to get it.

SPEAKER_01 30:58

Yeah, no, when I have my regular Real Crafter page, I don't care about that. But I just mean on my own personal website. I still keep it.

SPEAKER_00 31:04

I well I guess we know whose best friend is. But it does. I believe now.

SPEAKER_01 31:12

But they drag back and see like they do draw back every month, like, oh, these were the popular.

SPEAKER_00 31:18

But I think it's it's only I don't think I forget how it's done, but I you see because there's there's a uh and obviously you can only do I only do that with stuff that doesn't have an album release. Oh because um I just do the like the song web type thing for that so people go get it. Right, right. Um but if I'm doing a few demo, uh not a few demo, but a few teaser tracks or an album that doesn't have a release, I'll put the whole album up there in Real Crafter embedded, and I believe it does track plays. Well, if it's Real Crafter, it does for sure. Yeah, it used to never do embedded ones, it only used to do if you go to the Real Crafter playlist on the Real Crafter site, but I believe now it does.

SPEAKER_01 32:04

Man, well, with Real Crafter and Heaviosity as two of our sponsors are now. No, this is looking pretty good.

SPEAKER_00 32:10

We're gonna I might be able to get those two chairs in here with all that uh but wait a minute. What? Oh wait, you you want some of that endorsement money? Uh yeah. So I don't think we're joking around enough this episode. I think it's too serious. People are gonna get bored.

SPEAKER_01 32:33

Okay, I'll tell you one joke. And this is a joke that last time at my when I went to vote at my at my polling center or whatever, um, there's this elderly gentleman sitting outside welcoming people as you know, you walk up and he's like, Oh, are you are you here to vote? I said, Yes. And he'd said, Would you like to hear the joke of the day? I was like, Absolutely, I would like to hear the joke of the day. And he said this to everybody, by the way, because my wife had gone there like three hours before me, and she told me the same thing, but it was a different joke. Oh, wait, no, it was a different joke. So the so the joke he told me with a totally straight face was oh, what do you call a cheap um oh what do you call a cheap circumcision? I don't know what. A ripoff. Oh man. And I just busted out laughing. And I walked into the point center and I was laughing. And the guy that handed me my ballot was like, Did you hear the joke of the day? Oh, he was so awesome. And I I finished voting, I came out and I wanted to thank him for really making my day. That's okay. So he was gone. He was on his lunch break or something.

SPEAKER_00 33:52

Oh jokes had to take a rest. Man. Okay, so oh, let's continue with good information. Well, yeah. So what would be you wanted to talk about your origin story? Oh, yeah. Did you want to do that or is that too long?

SPEAKER_01 34:06

It's long, but I um but I could try to make it faster.

SPEAKER_00 34:11

Is that gonna help anybody?

SPEAKER_01 34:12

It might. Okay, so here's I actually if oh man, if anybody steals this idea, I'm saying it right now. What's the date?

SPEAKER_00 34:22

Yep.

unknown 34:23

God damn it.

SPEAKER_01 34:25

What's it's March 18th. March 18th, 2026. What idea? Although I've said it in the past too, a lot of people heard it. Um, for a I wanted to, everybody's writing a book. And so for years I've just been like half joking saying, like, oh, I'm gonna write a book about how to get into the uh industry, how to get into the industry, how to make it as a composer, and I'm gonna call it how to get struck by lightning.

SPEAKER_00 34:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 34:55

I like the title because everybody, I mean, so many people that's how do you get in the game industry? How do I make it as a composer? How do I do this? How do that? And it's like everyone's path is unique.

SPEAKER_00 35:09

Right. That's what we mentioned we touched on last week, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:12

Exactly. So will my origin story help anybody? No, not really. It's just my path, just like yours won't help anybody, just like anybody's won't help them. I mean, if you've seen that that amazing John Williams documentary, you see his origin story. I didn't see it. Oh, Kevin. Oh, I'm sorry. So good. Sorry. And it's like him as a little kid, like studying piano, and then he started like a little uh like big band in his garage. And of course he did. Um and there's all like he just and his parents were musicians, and um he just did all the right all the right things in his particular timeline on earth that got him to be John Williams. And uh, you know, like if he had done something different, if he had studied flute instead of piano, or like would it would he be John Williams Day? Like, I don't know. So everyone's origin stories are different and they're all interesting. Um although they won't help you.

SPEAKER_00 36:18

No, no, they might not help, but they're they're an insight into how it could happen. You know, it like just with any just with like anything else, you you listen to stories and you take what you can from the story and apply it to your own life. So you telling your story, there might be one little nugget of information in there that might have somebody think a certain way to alter their path. Right. So go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 36:45

Have parents that are professional musicians.

SPEAKER_00 36:47

Have parents that are professional musicians. Have a have a father or a mother that is a film composer. Yeah, then you just you pretty much have them in.

SPEAKER_01 36:58

Yeah, well, there's that, and that's you know, see my that's another valid way in. It's it's cuts corners and like uh for sure.

SPEAKER_00 37:06

If see my boys, my boys didn't know what they were doing. They wanted to play baseball. They could have had a a a shoe-in to they could be using your printing stems for you. The thing is, I have to get gigs for them to get gigs, and we all know how hard that is. I know. Plus with with two, that's like well, it's like uh oh Kiner. Yeah, yeah, they're Kiner, twin. I don't know, they twins, but they're kinder kids. Um, yeah, no, they're uh there's two and they help out.

SPEAKER_01 37:41

And like what are the odds, even though if you grow up with like like a really like your dad or your mom or whoever is a like like a really great composer, really successful composer, and so of course they can kind of give you a l a leg up, right? But what are the odds that they want to do it too? Well that they want to do it, but also that they're able that they somehow got the music together.

SPEAKER_00 38:03

Right, no, i I guess it's it's rare and you only hear about the ones that end up getting into the same thing. You don't hear about the ones that go on to play baseball. I'm just kidding.

SPEAKER_01 38:16

Um okay, so I'm gonna do I'm gonna do it, try to abbreviate it. Okay. I'm gonna do my origin story. And I've done it before on other podcasts and interviews and things. Um, but I'm gonna do it here.

SPEAKER_00 38:29

Can I interject with Snide com comments?

SPEAKER_01 38:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 38:33

I'm gonna try to keep like I need at least 10 minutes. Uh we got that. Okay, I'm just saying that would put us still in under an hour. Okay, and then we can hear, you know, something, you know, yeah, you know slightly less interesting from you.

SPEAKER_00 38:45

And then we'll I am uh I'm exhausted today, so you're not gonna hear much from me.

SPEAKER_01 38:50

But go ahead. All right, it's that LA traffic. Yeah, holy fucking hell. Okay, my origin story. So I did not grow up musical, I did not play an instrument, I didn't go to the symphony. Um I do happen to like uh ballet and opera now. I did not go to those either.

SPEAKER_00 39:09

Don't tell that to Timothy Chaler.

SPEAKER_01 39:12

I think I think we know who won out in the end. Yeah, I know. Ballet and opera. And good for them. Um until I was about, I think 16, and then I got a guitar, and I got a fender stratocaster. Yeah, baby. And I my dad actually plays classical guitar, not professionally or anything, but just as a hobby.

SPEAKER_00 39:36

Right. And um So what what sorry, what age was your guitar? Did you get a guitar? 16. 16, okay.

SPEAKER_01 39:44

And so yeah, I got this guitar, and I for the rest of the last last two years of high school, I was just self-taught. And I still didn't read music because tablature. Yeah, of course. I taught myself, you know, how to play things like like Zeppelin and Metallica and Slayer and ACDC and Black Sabbath, and but I had the big tablature books of the albums.

SPEAKER_00 40:10

Nothing wrong with that.

SPEAKER_01 40:10

And no, that's it's oh it's a legit way to teach yourself guitar. Yeah. But then I moved to oh, and I had a death metal band. Ooh. Tribal Corruption.

SPEAKER_00 40:22

Really?

SPEAKER_01 40:23

Yep. Nice. And but so I played death metal for a couple years, but I never considered myself like, oh, I'm a musician. It was just like I play guitar in a death metal band. Okay. No, I mean I was a musician, I don't know. I didn't identify as a musician. That's weird. I didn't, yeah, so that's why so I went to a uh junior college because I didn't identify as any kind of profession, you know. Like I had no idea what I wanted to do with my life. I would have loved to have actually kept a band going, but like our drummer, um, he was super smart. He went off to Claremont McKenna to study. Jesus. Um, and then uh yeah, then and everything just kind of fell apart after that. I did get another drummer um who's crazy good, but it's like the people I brought in started taking the band away from me. I was like the last original tribal corruption member. Oh, and this guitarist that uh that joined, he was so good, like crazy, crazy good. And he started writing the songs. I was used to always writing the songs. He started writing them, and honestly, I couldn't play them, they were too hard. And so I just wound up dropping out. Oh man. That was a bit of a tangent, right? Um, so, anyways, I'm at I'm at my school, Bakersfield College, and I happened to take a music theory class uh just for fun. I kind of took a little of everything. Um and we uh it was mostly like I don't know, it just wasn't for me, it wasn't that interesting, but um but this one day the professor's like, we're studying the classical era in within classical music, and it was uh we're gonna talk about Mozart and specifically his 40th symphony, and I had never heard it before. Kind of vaguely knew who Mozart was. Um but really I didn't have that much experience. But uh so we listened to the 40th symphony, first movement, and it basically moved me to tears in class. Like I was I was just overcome with emotion. Like, like, what is this? Like, how does this music make me like feel like this? Like, this is insane. Like, I've like I'm used to like metal, like, yeah, that that makes me feel the way that like pumps me up. Yeah, uh, but this was just something like sublime, and I had this this like epiphany, and I was like, that's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna write music, I'm gonna be a composer, which was insane because I didn't read music, I didn't know anything about the orchestral instruments, I didn't um there's nothing in my life had led me to that point except hearing one time Mozart's 40th. And I and right then I was like, that's it.

SPEAKER_00 43:29

But not to interrupt the story, but even so you say that was at 16, so nothing before then.

SPEAKER_01 43:36

No, no, no, guitar was at 16. This was like a couple years later in junior college.

SPEAKER_00 43:42

Nothing leading up to the age of 16, any movies or anything like that, did that?

SPEAKER_01 43:48

I mean, I the first the first two records I bought um were Michael Jackson's Thriller and John Williams Star Wars. Okay. So I did listen, I knew. I knew John Williams because I grew up with stars and the idea.

SPEAKER_00 44:04

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it I I don't want to cut you off and make this about me, but growing up, even studying music at an early age, I didn't know that being a film game or any composer was even attainable. Like what was a profession that I could pursue. I had no idea. It wasn't until I was in my late teens that I realized that, oh, I can actually do that if, you know, you put all the effort into it.

SPEAKER_01 44:36

Yeah, and it's not something that for sure at the school I went to, that was never like a carrot that was dangled in front of me.

SPEAKER_00 44:43

Yeah, yeah. But continue.

SPEAKER_01 44:46

Yeah. So heard Mozart's 40th symphony, had my epiphany. It's like from this moment forward, I am a composer. And so I stayed at this junior college one more year. Um, which was kind of long because then that was like my third year there. You know what's long?

unknown 45:06

What?

SPEAKER_01 45:07

Story.

SPEAKER_00 45:10

We want to know your origin story in the industry, not. It's getting to that though.

SPEAKER_01 45:15

Oh, it's getting to that because I'm surprised we didn't go far back to we would have if I had if that if I had any musical training then. Anyways, be quite you're the one making it longer than it needs to be. Yeah, okay. So stayed on another year. I took piano lessons. I um I had transitioned into classical guitar. I did take lessons for that. Um, I was doing music theory, music history, um, sight singing, uh and sight singing. And terrible. So page. Um and just any music class the school offered, I was in it. And then I wanted to to uh you know, talk to we had this amazing professor. He actually just retired, and I'm sorry I couldn't make it out for his final concert there, but his name's John Gerhold, and he taught music at UCLA, and he was a huge inspiration to me. And I was writing out like little things like total like Bach ripoffs and stuff. Because I like besides Mozart, I'm like, ooh, Bach, who's well that's what you do when you're learning. I mean, you but that counterpoint was so interesting to me, and I I like wrote him something or for class, whatever, but he was just like, he's like, Ooh, that's already very advanced. Like, you have like counterpoint in there. Do you even know what that is? And I know, and he's like, Well, a lot of like people just write like like a chord and like a melody here. He's like, You've got like multiple lines, yeah. And you know, you made me feel all fancy, like, ooh. Uh, but then from there, I I was like, okay, I'm ready to go to an actual university and I'm gonna study music. And I had made up that mind from my mind for myself that I'm gonna stop looking at your watch. I didn't that I wanted to go to a real school and study music for real. And at the time I thought, this is before I was like scoring media, you know. I was like, I'm gonna get my doctorate and be in have my my doctorate in music composition and then teach at a university, and then they will the school orchestra will have to play my music because I'll be a professor. Um so I I wound up going to UCLA, right? And then blah blah blah. Fast forward, I got my my degree. Um, I go out into the world, and it's like, oh how do you make money? Like you can't just get on the open up the back of the newspaper and see like composer wanted. Blockbuster film needs composer. So, dude, I don't know how you went about like like looking for your first gigs, but I would I actually found the the one it's kind of funny now, although it's still it still hurts a little bit, but I found a a number, and it must have been in like Hollywood Reporter or something, but it was like, oh, here's some movies that are in pre-production, and I was like, oh, perfect. And I used to even, oh my god, I would have my ex-wife call and be like, like calling for Mr.

SPEAKER_00 48:33

Velasco. Oh, that's fine, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:34

Yeah, I would even do it myself sometimes. Like, I'm uh I've got Mr. Velasco on the line that just voice sounds the same. Whoops. Um call for Mr. Vlasco, Mr. Velasco on the line. But so stupid, but I'm sure I'm not the only one. No, of course not. No. But I I but I called this production company and they actually answered, and I was like, oh hi, this is Chris. I'm a composer. Like I saw your thing, your movie sounds really interesting. Like, love to talk to somebody about about writing music for you. Right. And and I remember this girl was online, she was like, Oh, that's so awesome. We definitely need a composer. Like, wait, let me put you in touch with the director. And I was like, Oh baby, I just struck gold.

SPEAKER_02 49:27

It's happening.

SPEAKER_01 49:29

And she gave me his number, and then I was so nervous, but I I like did some little some breathing exercises. I called him up, and you know. Did he do one of these? How the hell did you get my number? Oh, yeah. Yeah, I got that before. Um, but he but you know, he's like, hello. I'm like, oh, is this I can't I don't even remember who it was. Um uh, you know, is this Quentin Tarantino? You know I don't use original composers. Uh but yeah, the guy was so pissed. Yeah, he's like, How did you get this number? I'm like, I called your production office and they they gave it to me. Do you know who I am? Do you know who you are? Like, you've got no right calling me, blah, blah, just cursing me out. F you, F you. Might have been the same guy I called. But he was just like, if you ever call me again, I will make sure to ruin your career before you even have one. And I was like, Damn. Wow, for your first and that put me off cold calling.

SPEAKER_00 50:33

Yeah, that'll do it. Holy that didn't happen to me at first. Uh, that happened to me. You know, it's funny.

SPEAKER_01 50:40

I don't this is a this might be a tangent, but well, it already is, because I haven't even gotten to my origin story.

SPEAKER_00 50:48

Well, because you started at too early of a point. I did. Um, I had a mutual myself and Bill Conti. We had a mutual friend. So he put us in touch with each other. So I had a conversation with Bill Conti, which was freaking awesome, yeah, by the way. But I was struggling, and I was just, you know, asking his opinion on things, and he's like, I mean, obviously, this was this had to have been close to 10 years ago, 15 years ago, maybe. Maybe, yeah, definitely more than 15 years ago. Um, but his his story of how he used to do things is different than how I was doing things back then. Just like how we're doing how we did things is different from people how they're doing things now, as far as trying to get work. Um but he, I mean, he was telling me he used to ride his bike and just hang out in the commissary and the lunch area of Warner Brothers and everything, and just walk the lot. I'm like, now you can't do that. Um but he was big on just make the connection, make the phone call, you know. So I did. I saw this movie that was in production, it was an animated film. And at the time, this animation company wasn't big, but they're huge now, and it's not Pixar or anything, it was one of the it's one of the other ones. Um so I called up and I got straight somehow I got straight to the either the head producer or the director. And I it was the same type of thing. I'm like, hey, you know, I saw you you had this movie in production. Uh I'm a composer, I'd love to work on it. Uh, or I'd love to submit material and you know have a chance to be considered. He goes, How'd you get my number?

SPEAKER_01 52:51

He's like, if this isn't Alan Sylvestra, I'm gonna hang you up by the balls.

SPEAKER_00 52:56

So I I don't remember how I got his number. I'm I literally think I got her off of a listing for the production company somewhere. I did my research and I got the breaking your shit down if you don't want the composers calling you. But holy hell. And he pissed me off so much. I'm like, whoa! Did you did you snap back at him? I didn't snap. I'm like, dude, I am just calling. I'm like, the way I reacted to him was like almost like easy now, you know, pump your brakes type of thing. I'm just calling. Right. And he's like, who are you? And I'm like, I explained what I who I was, what I do. But I the way I reacted to him sort of put him on his heels. Like he backed off a little bit of being, and he was, he turned his mood a little bit, a little bit better. Like ended up being nice, not nice, but not an ass.

SPEAKER_01 53:50

Oh, so he didn't. How did you end? Did you say like, all right, see you soon? He didn't hang up on you? No, he Oh, my guy hung up on me.

SPEAKER_00 53:59

Well, he did first, like I said, he first asked how I got the number, and he was very rude to me. And I'm like, hey man, listen, I'm just making a phone call. I didn't know I'd get you directly. But he was like, we have people in mind already. Thank you for your interest. So it ended up nice, but at the first part of it, I was like, at that point, I wasn't even considering ruining a connection. I was just so angry. I was like, dude, fucking chill out.

SPEAKER_01 54:26

I know. Well, what's funny is you, you know, you probably had his personal cell number. You could have been like, All right, talk to you tomorrow. I should have called that guy back. This is not Chris Velasco, in case you were wondering.

SPEAKER_00 54:45

Yeah, sorry, sorry, that was that was just I had to interject my my same sort of experience. That reminded me of something else.

SPEAKER_01 54:53

I don't know, I know, but no, this is funny. Um so back in the day before music was streaming, really, you could you could still buy like I albums on iTunes, you know, but streaming stream. Like you couldn't just like pay 10 bucks a month and get everything. You had to buy the album. I remember those days. And so there uh and this is the time when David Arnold's Godzilla came out, and I wanted that score and it wasn't out. Um, you couldn't find it anywhere except on Napster. The Deep Web. The Deep Dark Web of Film Score Darks, which I was one of. Yeah, you were. And like I had a like a major collection of film scores. I still have all the CDs, actually. Um and but I wanted Godzilla so bad, and there are all these like little secret forums and stuff, and you could there wasn't a release for that at first? No, not for years. There is now, but yeah. No, not for years and years for some reason. It must have been like a some kind of union thing, or licensing, yeah, something. But I just remember, like, I I still love David Arnold, but that score He's alright. I'm just kidding. He's a great job. He's so good. What do you think? I'm just kidding. I'm I'm pissed that they they took James Bond away from him. That was yeah, that was not fair. Yeah, yeah. Um, because I love his score to the uh Christ Daniel Craig one. Um that's so good.

SPEAKER_00 56:22

Is that quantum? No.

SPEAKER_01 56:25

Sorry, I'm not a Bond.

SPEAKER_00 56:27

Oh I mean, I like Bond, but I'm not up on the quantum. It's not quantum. He did quantum, though.

SPEAKER_01 56:35

Quantum of Solace? He didn't do that? No. Yes, who did that? I don't know. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Maybe he didn't.

SPEAKER_00 56:42

You're really trying to stay on point here. I am because that would have been an awesome tangent that you usually enter. No, that would have been fun.

SPEAKER_01 56:49

Yeah, no. Uh, anyways, no. So I was in touch with all these these like like dark web uh composer, not composer, but um closure fan sites, soundtrack fans, soundtrack fans and stuff. Yeah, and then if you had something that was really rare, like Godzilla, that was your golden ticket because you know you could burn CDs, yeah, and then you'd be like, okay, for this though, like what have you got? I want this. And then sometimes there was a few specialty album uh soundtrack labels that did like limited runs of certain things. Like I remember Urban Legend by Chris Young was one of them, and like very low amount of copies made, and so it was kind of expensive. I mean, back then, if a CD was like 30 bucks, I'd be like in my wildest dreams, like no way could I afford that. Uh, but dude, I got a copy of Godzilla from somebody else, and so I had that, and I burned some CDs and I put the word out there. I just like you became another and I'm a dealer. I'm like, I've got Godzilla. And so I had a bunch of people, and I would like I would tell people, like, I want Chris Young's Urban Legend CD, and they bought that for me and mailed it to me, and then I mailed them my CDR of Godzilla. Wow. And I got a lot of rare stuff that way. That's pretty cool. But somebody out there was actually from Sony and just pr posing as somebody that wanted it, and suits came in. Oh my god. So I went and uh got a letter in the mailbox saying, like, you've got a package that you have to go get. And I'm like, package?

SPEAKER_00 58:34

I haven't ordered it.

SPEAKER_01 58:39

Um so I go to the post office, I get it. It's this big chunky thing, and it says uh like Sony pictures on the outside. And you're like, what? Oh my god, this is awesome. Like, they're gonna hire me. Like, what is it? It's a deal, it's an offer. Like, oh my god, I wonder what movie this is. That's how they do it. Yeah, I know. We heard your music on Napster and thought we'd uh so I open this thing up, and it is a CC letter from their lawyers, and it's thick, and it's all this like legal jargon, legal, yeah, yeah, legally stuff. And and I was just like, well, I've ruined my career before it ever started. Like ha ha ha as well just no shit. Move to Argentina or something. I don't know. What how did they know your address? How did they know? Oh, because I gave it to the people that were supposed to send me something. Well, how else was I gonna get the CDs?

SPEAKER_00 59:38

Okay, so so the purse, you obviously interacted with somebody.

SPEAKER_01 59:41

Yeah, uh and so they told me, and you didn't know who it was, right? You know, because they're not like, well, you know, Bob Smith that you sent it to was actually works from 20. So I had no idea which one of the like 20 people I sent a CD out to. You're like, I'm done with this. But no, but it was like uh like you need to get back every CD you sent out and send them to us. Um and for every CD we don't receive back, like we consider that like a loss and blah, blah, blah. And it was it was talking about like suing me for like you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars. And holy crap. I was scared out of my mind. Yeah, I'd be so I had to get on my computer and email everybody, and I'm like, I actually did it. I I'm like Well, wouldn't you print more out and send them in today? Because I because one of those people was the Sony guy, so I had to actually reach out, or he would have. Oh because if I didn't reach out to everybody, they'd be like, Well, this guy didn't reach out, and he just sent back CDs. Like, like he's just he's screwing with us. So I wrote back to every person, and I have to say, like, about half of them at least sent their CDs back to me. You know why? Because they ripped the CDs and it's on the computer now. Of course. But I was just, you know, surprised. But then there's this one guy that didn't, and he was so nasty to me in the email, too, and uh, and he would accuse me of ripping him off or whatever. I was just thinking I I didn't want to put in the email, but I'm like, just burn it, dude. Like, why are you why are you giving me all this grief? Like, like I'm the one that's gonna get sued for a million dollars by Sony. Wow, no idea. I ratted that guy out. I was like, so I I sent them CDs. You are such a good person. Oh my god, I was so scared. I I I boxed all the CDs up that I got, and I was like, here's all of them except for the following people that wouldn't return them. Here's their names and addresses. Absolutely root ratted about. That is awesome. And then I, of course, I never heard from them again. Um I still have one of those. I didn't send a mine, but it doesn't matter because it's all released now. It sounds way better than that CD.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:58

That is crazy. They just do that. Uh yeah, I don't know why they do that.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:02

I mean I was like early 20s, man, and I just, you know, I didn't have a pot to piss in. And now I've got Sony lawyers like sending me packets of of just like, oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:18

That's nuts. Yeah, I I I'd be shitting a brick too. Like your career hasn't even started and you're pissing off the industry.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:27

Man, and yeah, I I attribute that to why um I haven't done any big movies for Sony. Yeah, that's why. They st I I'm still on the blacklist there. All right, so that was that was fun. That was good. Um, all right. So after I to back to my story. Oh my god. No, I gotta finish it, man.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:48

What to when? Like, how far are we going? Till present day? No. But till I got my first gig.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:56

Okay, let's go. Give it to me. Get out of school. Don't know what what the hell I'm doing. They didn't they didn't teach me how to get gigs. Yeah, how to make a living as a composer, unless you want to stay in school and become a teacher. Yeah, nobody wants to do that. Yeah, no, nobody wants to do that.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:11

Um, some people do. I certainly found out I did not want to do that. Um if I was gonna sorry.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:17

If I was gonna teach, I would I definitely wouldn't want to teach music. I'd teach something else.

unknown 1:03:22

All right.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:22

Anyway, go ahead. Who cares?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:23

I um so oh man. Uh so I spent the next six years trying to get into the game industry. Oh, and at that point I realized I wanted to do games, not film or TV. Right. Because I had scored like a bunch of student films at UCLA. That's actually how Chris Young got started. Yeah. Um and but I don't know the caliber of the directors at that moment in time, their their ideas were nothing that I wanted to score. You could be, if you stuck with it, you could be Ludwig right now.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:03

Him and Ryan stuck together from day one.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:05

Yeah, that's dude, that there's a success story. Like, how did he get struck by lightning? Like he stepped out of his house day one, boom. Um, boom. Right. Um, no, that but you know what? He's so good. Oh my guy. Um it's uh yeah, I love that collaboration. Uh yeah, exactly. So, like when it happens to somebody that's nice and talented, yeah, it's like whew, that was a that was a good move, universe.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:30

So, who you who are you're saying is not nice? I'm just kidding.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:34

Go ahead with your story, go ahead. Um so yes, six years, literally, from the time I graduated to the time I got my first gig, and I did not want to move out of LA um last after go to school. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's you know, it's so expensive to live in LA. Um and I had like during that time, I was I was actually married, and then I and then we split up. Right. And then when so when we split up, like, oh my god, like she actually had like a regular job that was bringing in like money, not for us to be like comfortable, comfortable, but but we could like live in North Hollywood in like a little apartment and and not worry about like being homeless or having to move back home or move to another's like cheap city or something. So that kind of gravy train ended for me. And uh and dude, I I honestly do feel though that that was the catalyst that like flipped a switch for me because that well that would do it, yeah. Yeah, because I was before that, like I was an extra in like so many like films and TV and stuff, like like stuff from that era. You could watch it, you'd be like, is that Chris?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:50

He's in the background leaning against the locker.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:53

Everything I cleaned out wells and a forest. I did like like tear down stuff on roofs for before. They would roof the house. I got there with your shovel. Damn. And that was scary work, too. Yeah. Every restaurant job, uh everything. And didn't um and then, yeah, so when when my ex left, I was that was when I really had to like, okay, I have to work, work, work, work to make sure I can stay here. Because at that moment you had to be in LA if you wanted to be a composer. Yeah, at that time. Pretty much. Yeah. Uh and so I my my last oh, and I had an agent at the time, you know, our agent, Bob.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:38

Oh, you had you had him way early.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:40

I know, way before an agent should really take you on. Yeah. But it it gave me a little like boost in confidence. Yeah, of course. Of course. Um, and so my my last final job before I started composing full-time was as a telemarketer. And it just sucked the life out of me. Yeah. I was terrible. I wouldn't follow the script. I'd be like, you know, it's like George trying to sell computers or something. I'd be like, hello? You want to buy this? No? Okay. Okay. I would never try to talk about it. Like, I know a losing battle when I get one. Like, I don't want to get yelled at or hung up on. I'll just say, like, thank you very much for your time. Go about your day. Um, but through Bob, I got he he emailed me or called me or something like that morning and was like, there's this new game, Battlestar Galactica, that Atari, I mean that Infograms is doing. Oh my god, Infograms. And uh, and it's like an open call. It was not an open call, but he he found out about it and like just like here, every composer I know. Uh and I used to watch the original Battlestar with my mom when I was a little kid. Right. And so I was like, oh my god, like I know this Stu Phillips music. Um, this is like totally meant for me. I wanted to do like sci-fi anyways, like space, like John Williamsy. Like, this is this is exactly what I wanted to do. And so I called up work and I said, I need the day off. They knew I was trying to become a composer, um, professional composer. Right. We are all composers. But when you make money, now you're professional. Right. Um, so I I they knew that, and I was like, I got my first demo ever. Um, I got I need the day off because it's due today at 5 p.m. Right. Which is not how we know now that demos were no one calls you and said by 5 p.m. I better have an original demo right now. Like, what? Oh so it had clearly been going on for a while, and I heard about it on the very last day. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, but work was like, sorry, dude, we need you. And like telemarketing. I'm like, first of all, you you know you don't need me. Uh I'm not selling anything. And secondly, like, no, this is my this is my one chance. Like, you got one chance, you know, what's the yeah, yeah. One chance, not something something like that. Opportunity knocks once in a lifetime. Yeah, yeah. Uh and I'm like, that that's it. That's opportunity knocking. So I um they wouldn't give me the day off, and I said, Okay, cool. Well, how about this? I quit. And they're like, okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:33

But yeah, but they needed you.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:35

Right. So uh, and I told a couple of my friends that uh I'm like, I just quit my job, but I I got a pitch for this game, and they're like, Are you stupid? Like people did not really because it had been six years with no luck, and they're like, and you had a job and you just quit so that you could pitch an audition for something, and I'm like, yeah, but this is this is my this is my life. Like, this is if I don't do this, I'm something I'm gonna explode or implode or um, and so I I like I listened to the Battlestar Galactica music, got refreshed with it, did my own take on like Stu's themes, like but I made it kind of like thematic and then sort of action-y, and like I'm gonna show you a little bit of everything. And and I sent off an MP3 through email, and because waves would never attach, they're too big. No, yeah, way too big. Uh and then I got a call like 10 minutes later, and it said my phone said infograms. I was like, Oh my lord. And like, hello. And uh it was a guy that uh became a good friend, Tom Zender. He was the audio director there and composer, and it was Tom, and he was like, Hey, we just got your demo, uh, which I have to say is a bit of a surprise because who are you? And how did you even find out we were like looking for composers? I'm like, oh, my agent told me I should send something. He's like, All right, well, it doesn't matter because we really loved what you did. Unfortunately, we weren't expecting anything from you or anyone else now, and we we settled, we thought we had everything. We settled on a composer like an hour ago. Oh we already called him and he accepted. And I was just like, all the air just like Yeah. And oh my god, what a gut punch! Yeah, it was horrible. Oh and but he would he seem really seemed genuine. He's like, but we we recognize your passion for Battlestar Galactica in your music. We liked your music, we liked what it was doing, and and like you would have been great, I'm but I'm so sorry. And so at that moment, I was like, I'm I'm not doing this anymore. I can't, like, this is Can't deal with the emotional, like it's been six years. I got one opportunity, and then I missed it by an hour, and I'm like, the universe is telling me you gotta move on, buddy. Oh wow. Um, so I looked into the next day culinary school. No shit. Yeah, I was gonna go to the Cordon Blue had a had a satellite campus in uh Pasadena, and I was gonna enroll, even though I still had crushing student debt from UCLA, I was gonna enroll back in school uh to become a chef. Wow. Because it was the only other thing I was really interested in. Right, yeah, yeah. And then the next day after that, so two days after I pitched, Tom Zender calls me up again. He's like, you know, we were listening to your demo, and we just can't stop listening. Like, we really like it. So we'd love to give you a cinematic to work on. And and it was gonna be like two minutes or something. And I don't remember what I was charging back then, it was not a lot. Yeah, it's but I knew, but my rent was also not so much back then. And I'm like, I'm gonna write this one score Q, and it's going to pay my rent for the month plus like food. Right. And I'm like, I made it. Like, I'm a professional composer, and I was. And uh so yeah, they so I did that, and then they liked it, and then I did another one, and they they kept giving me some cinematics, and then at one point, they're like, Well, we actually let go of the guy we hired. Do you have the bandwidth to just take over the game? And so I got to score the game. It was just all the cinematics, but dude, it was it was enough to like keep me floating in North Hollywood for probably six months or something. Yeah, that's awesome. And then those same guys hired me uh for a Barbie game. Okay, Barbie Swan Lake. And then I did another one that was like another kid's game, and then they were doing Van Halen, not Van Halen, Van Helsing. Van Helsing, Van Halen the game. That'd be pretty awesome. But yeah, Van Helsing, which was I'm like, oh my god, Van Helsing fucking vampire game. I think I remember seeing that at E3. Oh, probably, yeah. And and that one we recorded live in Seattle.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:31

Like your second big game, like that's what you recorded live.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:36

Yeah, and then that through like meeting the infogram guys, that led me to meet this other guy at Atari, and I did a couple of trailers for them, but then he introduced me to Victor Rodriguez. Oh, I know Victor. Yeah, who was uh head head of audio at Sony, Santa Monica, um, and they were working on this game called God of War. Oh and never heard of that one. Yeah, Victor was like, We're working on this new game, this brand new IP. I think it's something that you would love to work on. Do you want to pitch? And but that's it. It's like so that is my origin story, but it's also now like once I got in, connections, connections, keep on making the and keep them solid, keep nurturing them. Yeah, but yeah, I mean then God of War gave me like street cred.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:24

Yeah, and um, and then how many composers speaking of God? There was quite a few composers on that first one, wasn't there? I think uh four or five. Four or five. Yeah, I never played the first. I only got into God of War when it's was reinvented. I know. I tried to go back and play the originals, but well, they're a little dated now.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:46

Yeah, that's the problem. They're supposed to be remaking them. I don't know if it's a total remake or just like an HD or I don't know I don't know. But they were fun.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:54

I don't know. That's uh that's a pretty cool story, man. Not as fun as mine, but quite it. I'm just kidding. Actually, it was it was more desperate than mine, it sounds not desperate, but but more like uh what's the words I'm looking for? I'm not trying to downplay it. I'm like, it's like seems it seemed more stressful than mine.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:18

Well, I yeah, I don't want this to be like a a poor me or a poor us. No, no, no, no. I I mean like at that time, like I it's a little frustrating when when like some some like new guys, I mean, I know the stress of wanting, like, I want to work on these cool games so bad. I mean, I still feel like that. I mean the game awards happen, E3 happens, GDC happens, all these new things come out, and I'm like, I never heard of that. Like, why didn't I get to pitch on that? Yeah, it's you know, it's all it's but still, even this far into my career, I'm like, oh, I want that so bad. There's so many further. But you do have unless you are extremely lucky, there's a there's steps and you you gotta pay your dues. Of course. And it's I mean, nobody likes to hear that pay your dues, but it's really it's not an easy path by any means. It's not. And and I mean, I I'm obviously game-centric, so from my point of view, like, first of all, you have to love games. If you don't, if you don't love playing games, then you're just not gonna grasp the the mechanics behind what you need for games. And and even if you do grasp it, if you don't play games, you don't like I I'm so critical of my work now, and I think about it, how it's gonna appear in the game, and you know, if it's if it's looping or not, and and like how many times can I listen to this before it drives me crazy and what's making me crazy, and then I have to go in and it might be my favorite melody in the piece, and like we gotta rip it out after five times and it got on my last nerve. So rip it out.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:00

I remember, I mean, I I haven't done I've done a good amount of video games, um, but I haven't done a lot recently. But every time I worked on one, I'm like, take the music out. I'm like, why am I writing music here? I mean, I'm going to annoy the player, or the music's going to annoy the player. Like, let them explore, let them, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:24

I am Yeah, that's where implementation comes in, where you need someone really good on the dev side that that understands that too. Because if you go also too long with nothing, then it feels empty.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:38

Too much, like, and then that's when people start turning the music off.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:41

Yeah. I mean, I know with my experience with with doing games, it's always they they want or or you just give them an enormous amount of music and then let them choose, you know, the implementation of how it's implemented and everything. And hopefully you they make the good, the better choices on you know, yeah. That's all that's not how I really do it. Well, I I no, but I mean, I noticed that when I when I used to do games, that I ended up writing more music than was actually used in the games because of the implementation. Like they always ask for more than what is used, it seems. Oh. I don't find that to be true anymore.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:27

No. Well, usually I think it's usually budget reasons that there's not enough music. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:37

Like, I I like, I mean, for example, like I played what are the recent games I played? I played uh Horizon Forbidden West. And I am sure there were hours of music written for that. I'm sure. But there were so many points in the game where there was no music. Or I couldn't hear it. I don't know. But it and it felt right. It felt, you know, fine. So I'm thinking, where is all this music that was written?

SPEAKER_01 1:20:08

Well, I mean maybe you're just lost in the story and the gameplay, and you didn't even your brain didn't even notice it was music because it works so well.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:17

Yeah, I was about to say that means that the music was doing its job. That's possible. All right, we are at an hour and 20 minutes.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:28

Oof. Okay, but I think I hope this was a little more focused than last time. I mean, we'll watch it and then and then we'll see.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:37

But but I was hoping that this is this can't be I'm not gonna be able to uh view this and edit it for uh I don't think we need to edit this baby. You think we're gonna be good solid through? I think it's solid. Which is fine. We'll it might be good, yeah. But um there's part of me hoping that that camera stayed filming.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:04

Well, what's the point if it didn't? What do you mean there's part of you? Well, remember it shut off earlier earlier? It stopped.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:11

Oh, but I wasn't recording, it wasn't in use, so okay. I I would hope it'd give me an alert, but I'll know as soon as I stop it. Um, which would suck royally. Why is my studio making so many noises? Do you hear those cracks and creaks? That's my foot.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:28

Oh you got paper here that I'm putting my bare foot on.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:32

No, it's it's it's a uh old UPC.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:36

It looks like a present.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:37

No, it's a it's the old UP UP UPC battery power supply. Uh oh. So I have to properly dispose of them. It's garbage. I have to properly dispose of them, but I don't know where to go to dispose of them. I can't just throw them out. That's bad. Yeah, that'd probably take five seconds on Google. Anyway, thanks for joining us today. Um hopefully this was worthwhile and some of the information.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:04

I would love non-snarky comments about what you'd maybe like to see from this. Or yeah, please post in the comments. I mean, we're gonna lose track of the topics no matter what. Uh we're gonna do some BSing no matter what. But please post questions. I mean, if you have specific questions, we'll definitely get to them.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:25

Uh it would help help the the the uh the podcast flow. Um but yeah, I uh thanks for those who have watched. Um thanks to our sponsors, Heavy City and Realcrafter. Potential sponsors, but uh we should tag them and be it. Oh, we're gonna start. Yeah, this one I will tag them. Um and hopefully soon uh I'll be able to get it up on uh like just audio podcast too. So you can listen on your long drives to work. Um yeah, Valley to Santa Monica. This is like perfect length. But I'm also hopefully we have viewers and listeners outside of LA who drive to work. Yeah, all right. Well, let's let's end it. Uh let's lend it. All right, so uh yeah, thanks. Uh yeah, so uh all right, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:24

We'll see you in like a week.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:26

Yeah.